- Thread starter
- #21
sti491
Member
Thanks. I have the mechanical skill set. Would you mind sending me the cam map just so I have it? I can message you my e-mail...
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Timing change....Do it!
- Thread starter sti491
- Start date
Thanks. I have the mechanical skill set. Would you mind sending me the cam map just so I have it? I can message you my e-mail...
I can't get to it tonight, but can try tomorrow. I don't have it on my surface pro, but I think I have it on my old laptop (my son uses it). Worst case I pull it from my pc5 and load it onto my surface pro. I have the pc5 app on my phone. So send me your email addy and I'll get the map to you as soon as I can. I may have the adv gear rev b on there as well. Awesome map,but not good once you change cams.
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- Thread starter
- #23
sti491
Member
I'll send you my e-mail address. Thank you very much. Martin and I have been in touch through my mods. I am currently running his adv gear rev b and love it! Thanks again for your assistance with the cam map.
Martin is the man when it comes to the 6r or just about anything with an engine.
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TN6R
Member
Just wanted to share this with you guys (I know the tool pictured is probably not worth the cost for it from Yamaha for this particular mod but in case others wanted to know if there was another method to tightening the bolt) for the pick up rotor.
For myself, I'm just going to take an 8 inch metal bracket bar and then drill a couple holes to accommodate 2 bolts to be bolted to it. Then I'll use it to simulate the wrench application in the pic. I think that would work.
38813909840_c1755eec25_b by XRC, on Flickr
For myself, I'm just going to take an 8 inch metal bracket bar and then drill a couple holes to accommodate 2 bolts to be bolted to it. Then I'll use it to simulate the wrench application in the pic. I think that would work.
38813909840_c1755eec25_b by XRC, on Flickr
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- Thread starter
- #26
sti491
Member
Just wanted to share this with you guys (I know the tool pictured is probably not worth the cost for it from Yamaha for this particular mod but in case others wanted to know if there was another method to tightening the bolt) for the pick up rotor.
For myself, I'm just going to take an 8 inch metal bracket bar and then drill a couple holes to accommodate 2 bolts to be bolted to it. Then I'll use it to simulate the wrench application in the pic. I think that would work.
Seems like that would work fine. However, do you have an impact wrench, either air or electric? If not it's a nearly must have tool for lots of things.... sure makes taking tires off your car easier!
My advice is to use an impact. Here is what I did after reading other methods, and getting great advice on this forum. I had my rear tire on a paddock stand (that's another worthwhile investment), but it could be on it's side stand as well. I indexed the wheel and the shaft with a sharpie marker. I looked at the part of the nut that was factory peened and decided the factory did a crappy enough job that it would impact off without me trying to bang it out some with a drift. The bike was in neutral. Then I used the impact gun with air pressure at 90PSI and it zipped right off, which in the process straightens the peened flange so it screws back on by hand leaving the threads pristine. That's if you reuse it. A new one is specified. The impact pulses worked so well it didn't even spin the the shaft a bit in reverse. Some have said turning the cam chain backwards is not recommended.
After I filed the second used wheel I bought, I used a sharpie to mark it in the exact same place as the original. Of course, you don't need a second trigger wheel, you can just file the one you take off that is already marked. This trigger is held on my a relatively huge bolt, that is peened not to back off, and all it does is hold the weight of the trigger wheel itself...yes, at 13,000 rpm and if it comes off your screwed... but it is small, light and the inertia applied to the bolt that holds it is not all that much.
Still, as I mentioned in my post, I tried to use a torque wrench to the spec'd 25lbs, and the cam chain moved on me as expected. I could have done something like this, or put it in gear, and/or jammed a 2x4 in the rear wheel spokes, and, you can take an engine cover off the other side and hold it with another wrench. Since careful impact wrench tightening back to the index mark worked for Martin, I figured it would work for me. I used a tad of blue lock tight for extra safe measure. Then I peened it way better IMO, than the factory did. Given how little work this nut does, that it is locktighted and peened, I personally don't think it matters if it is 22ftlbs, 25, or 28. It just needs to be reasonably close and peened. My 2 cents.
All that being said, your method or any of the others mention will work. I did read that although the spec is only 25ftlbs, that getting it off the first time without an impact wrench can be difficult. It feels like twice that they say, requiring a long breaker bar. There are some things in life that an impact gun is the just this ticket for. This is one of them!
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TN6R
Member
- Thread starter
- #28
sti491
Member
I did most of mine with a file about the size of the middle one. What you want though, is the edge not to have file teeth on it, you want it smooth. Some files are like that, some are not. Just realize, using a large file makes it easier to keep the nub square. But, it files fast so don't file too much. This is one of those jobs where making an error to take a little less off, if better than too much.
MrFrzZ
New Member
Isn't the stock FZ6 HP number around 92?
Has anyone seen excessive rear tire wear on their fz6r when pushing into the 80+ HP range? I would think that if someone is going to ramp it up to reach 90, they would need to look into a larger rear tire? Maybe not some much for traction in the here and now, but for tire longevity?
Has anyone seen excessive rear tire wear on their fz6r when pushing into the 80+ HP range? I would think that if someone is going to ramp it up to reach 90, they would need to look into a larger rear tire? Maybe not some much for traction in the here and now, but for tire longevity?
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- #30
sti491
Member
Hmmmmmm, I don't know about that. I have read a lot about some peeps going up in rear tire size, but when I recently replaced my tires I went standard. A bigger tire is heavier and if it's a larger circumference you are losing tourque. Many articles about reduced turn in, however those that have done it say they like the handing better. I'm sure it looks good!
What I have been wondering is with stock size tires, how many miles do fairly sport aggressive road riders get on a rear tire, and on the front. I am sure everyone is a little different with the brand/model tire size, but on average?
MrFrzZ
New Member
As you mention, a larger rear tire is going to result in a loss of power. The profile of the tire also changes when squeezing it onto the wheel. I think the idea that it is turning it better might be all mental due to the fact that we all see SS bikes with fat meats on the rear and super dramatic lean angles. It looks better, but I like riding my bike more than looking at it haha.
I had a Metzeler M7 on the rear and a Dunlop on the front when I purchased my bike. the bike had 1k miles on it. I ran that set up for another 3 or 4k miles and the front was toast. The back had some tread left, but I went ahead and replaced both with new M7's. Right now, I've got another 3 or 4k on them (its terrible I dont remember the mileage they were changed) but I've got another set waiting to go on before I May due to tech inspection fears if I push it too close to the wear bars by then.
The riding I did in WV before moving to SC was almost all twisty road riding and Interstate. I'd ride on the interstate for about 10-15 miles everyday, and as soon as I got off that, it was in the mountains. Down here its a bit different. I have to ride straights until I get TO the mountains lol.
I may be throwing money away, but I will replace my tires together to get mileage and schedule clean. I feel like the life/ grip nature of the metzeler m7's are great for the street. I've wanted to pick up a spare set of wheels to keep for track tires, and have thought of trying Dunlop Q3's since I hear great things about it and a lot of riders use it for track day duty. A buddy of mine uses them on an S1krr and I got to ride it for a few miles. Amazing machine. Would take one in a heartbeat if $$ permitted lol
I had a Metzeler M7 on the rear and a Dunlop on the front when I purchased my bike. the bike had 1k miles on it. I ran that set up for another 3 or 4k miles and the front was toast. The back had some tread left, but I went ahead and replaced both with new M7's. Right now, I've got another 3 or 4k on them (its terrible I dont remember the mileage they were changed) but I've got another set waiting to go on before I May due to tech inspection fears if I push it too close to the wear bars by then.
The riding I did in WV before moving to SC was almost all twisty road riding and Interstate. I'd ride on the interstate for about 10-15 miles everyday, and as soon as I got off that, it was in the mountains. Down here its a bit different. I have to ride straights until I get TO the mountains lol.
I may be throwing money away, but I will replace my tires together to get mileage and schedule clean. I feel like the life/ grip nature of the metzeler m7's are great for the street. I've wanted to pick up a spare set of wheels to keep for track tires, and have thought of trying Dunlop Q3's since I hear great things about it and a lot of riders use it for track day duty. A buddy of mine uses them on an S1krr and I got to ride it for a few miles. Amazing machine. Would take one in a heartbeat if $$ permitted lol
I never really got the point of bigger tires, especially on a under powered bike like the 6R. HP is more than sufficient, don't get me wrong but going bigger doesn't mean better grip. Getting better SS tires would do that.
I dumped $2K on my mountain bike to cut on rotating mass with a carbon fiber wheelset and used as skinny and light of tires as possible. Because it matter when you only average 1/3HP! LOL So if you go out and spend $$$ to make your bike go faster and put a bigger tire than necessary is defeat the purpose. Good st of tires and invest in dialed in suspension instead.
On the side note, the Q3s are amazing tires. You won't see the end of it on the road. I track my FZ09 on them few time and after a lap or two the grip was awesome! I couldn't go any lower because the pegs were grinding. (Even did a hole in my boots from rubbing the ground). Pirelli Angle GT is quite a good set of tires too. I track those on a wet track and I was quite impress.
I dumped $2K on my mountain bike to cut on rotating mass with a carbon fiber wheelset and used as skinny and light of tires as possible. Because it matter when you only average 1/3HP! LOL So if you go out and spend $$$ to make your bike go faster and put a bigger tire than necessary is defeat the purpose. Good st of tires and invest in dialed in suspension instead.
On the side note, the Q3s are amazing tires. You won't see the end of it on the road. I track my FZ09 on them few time and after a lap or two the grip was awesome! I couldn't go any lower because the pegs were grinding. (Even did a hole in my boots from rubbing the ground). Pirelli Angle GT is quite a good set of tires too. I track those on a wet track and I was quite impress.
Been trying to figure out which tires to go with, just looked up pricing on q3s and they are reasonable (about 270) for a set. my tires just passed last inspection, but have inspection in September. Do not want to go all summer on the old ones so i may do this in a week or so. I was also looking at Bridgestone Battleax s21s and Dunlop Roadsmart 3s. Do you think the q3s are better?
MrFrzZ
New Member
What came down to my decision to stick with the metzelers was a couple of factors:
A) I wasn't sure how the Q3's behaved in the rain. I didn't look for a lot of reviews for rain since I was looking at it to be a track tire and was going to swap it out for the metzeler afterwards for the street. This was ill advised by a friend (the guy I'd be mounting them with) that I ran the risk of tearing the bead by taking them on and off again (hence looking for a set of spare wheels)
B) Head games. I went with the Metzeler's again because Ive ridden on them for 2 years now and I trust them. They've gotten me out of some "oh crap" moments, and have been good to me. Since my first track day will be this summer, I didnt want to have another "worry" in my head.
All that said.... I really want to try the Q3+ And if someone chimes in with rain experience on the Q3's and its positive, that might seal the deal for me to try them.
TN6R
Member
Sti491, when you put the coil cover back on the bike with the gasket, did you use threebond 1215 sealant as well? Or just the gasket without the sealant? The bike manual calls for threebond 1215 but I'm not exactly sure if it's one or the other, or both that they're calling for here...
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- #36
sti491
Member
The factory gasket I bought already had sealant applied to it in parts of it, so I did not add any more. I did carefully clean the mating surfaces.
The bolts had some kind of factory sealer that makes them snug when just hand tightening, so I did not use any additional thread locker. I did torque them to factory spec. They are not going anywhere.
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TN6R
Member
Good info, thanks for confirming. I bought a genuine Yamaha gasket for this.
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- #38
sti491
Member
Can't wait to hear what you think when done.
I think this is a great mod to do in conjunction with a 15T front sprocket. While the sprocket affects performance in every gear (giving the feeling of more torque.... a lot more in low gears), it's REALLY is noticeable in 1st and 2nd gears. The timing mod is most noticeable in 3rd gear because the ECU retards the ignition in 1st and 2nd, sorta cancelling out the timing gain in those gears.
What gears do you have the most fun in street riding under 80 mph?....1st, 2nd, & 3rd are the smile makers in my book. These two mods hit the jackpot!
While it's a little hard to compare my before and after mileage because I corrected my speed/odometer just after these last two mods, I think I got on average a fraction or maybe 1 mpg improvement from the timing advance. Ripping on it in the mountains the worst I got was 38. Now the worse I get is 39. Best combined country romping 50 mph cruising 40-41 mpg.
TN6R
Member
Man I was looking forward to completing this today but I received the wrong gasket in the mail. I must've been looking at my screen cross eyed when I order it. Anyway I order the correct one today and it's supposed to be here Thursday. Can't wait to do this mod! I'm going to do the 15T sprocket mod too. I already have it. Did you end up using the same chain?
1st, 2nd and 3rd do it for me too. I rarely get on the highway and most of my higher-speed roads are 55 mph but on average they're 35 and 45 so 1, 2 and 3 are where I stay most of the time. I've got everything I need to do the advanced timing mod except for that gasket, lol and will be doing it and the sprocket upgrade probably this Friday.
I don't plan on selling the bike any time soon and honestly don't plan on it for a number of years yet so I'm also going to pay a visit to my local dyno after I'm done all these mods. Figure might as well squeeze out as much efficiency as I can get. This bike, especially now is plenty powerful for me these days.
1st, 2nd and 3rd do it for me too. I rarely get on the highway and most of my higher-speed roads are 55 mph but on average they're 35 and 45 so 1, 2 and 3 are where I stay most of the time. I've got everything I need to do the advanced timing mod except for that gasket, lol and will be doing it and the sprocket upgrade probably this Friday.
I don't plan on selling the bike any time soon and honestly don't plan on it for a number of years yet so I'm also going to pay a visit to my local dyno after I'm done all these mods. Figure might as well squeeze out as much efficiency as I can get. This bike, especially now is plenty powerful for me these days.
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- #40