Timing change....Do it!


Rumpig

Member
I lived in the north of Oz and temps got that high , never had a problem.
We have 91 ,95 and 98 octane , i use 95 which is the same as your 91 i think.
 

tdnathens

Member
(mjv21 - Albert Chin - halfclickup) I never installed a 4 degree rotor on my bike because I did not want to take the time or trouble to modify my stock rotor. When I discovered I could purchase one and bolt it on I became more interested. When I saw that $70.00 and 30 minutes gets me 9.9 RWHP on a pretty much stock bike it became a no brainer. I have personally talked to and read about people who did this modification to stock bikes for 7 or 8 years now. Never heard a word about any problems. Several have even claimed better mileage. Where on line you can find this I don't know. I called the fellow that spoke to me about doing this to his stock FZ6R. He sold the bike but said he ran it for 6 years , no problems. Many times on 89 & 90 octane fuel at all temperatures. Soon as I get the time and energy I'm installing it on my bike.
Tom
 
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Half-Click Up

Active Member
(halfclickup) I never installed a 4 degree rotor on my bike because I did not want to take the time or trouble to modify my stock rotor. When I discovered I could purchase one and bolt it on I became more interested. When I saw that $70.00 and 30 minutes gets me 9.9 RWHP on a pretty much stock bike it became a no brainer. I have personally talked to and read about people who did this modification to stock bikes for 7 or 8 years now. Never heard a word about any problems. Several have even claimed better mileage. Where on line you can find this I don't know. I called the fellow that spoke to me about doing this to his stock FZ6R. He sold the bike but said he ran it for 6 years , no problems. Many times on 89 & 90 octane fuel at all temperatures. Soon as I get the time and energy I'm installing it on my bike.
Tom
Tom,

Thanks for the detailed reply! That’s some pretty reassuring information. By chance, would you happen to have a link handy to that 4 degree rotor?
 

tdnathens

Member
(halfclickup) It's strange but c.c.d.f.motorcycleproducts dropped all their degree wheels. They just list one item. I still have the listing only because it is saved in my e-bay summary. No links will work. Go to e-bay, use their search for this item number. 153992603219. It works for me, shows 3 left for sale. If this won't work let me know.
Tom
 

Half-Click Up

Active Member
(halfclickup) It's strange but c.c.d.f.motorcycleproducts dropped all their degree wheels. They just list one item. I still have the listing only because it is saved in my e-bay summary. No links will work. Go to e-bay, use their search for this item number. 153992603219. It works for me, shows 3 left for sale. If this won't work let me know.
Tom
Outstanding! Sure enough, there it is. Thanks man I’m gonna order one!
 

Half-Click Up

Active Member
(mjv21 - Albert Chin - halfclickup) I never installed a 4 degree rotor on my bike because I did not want to take the time or trouble to modify my stock rotor. When I discovered I could purchase one and bolt it on I became more interested. When I saw that $70.00 and 30 minutes gets me 9.9 RWHP on a pretty much stock bike it became a no brainer. I have personally talked to and read about people who did this modification to stock bikes for 7 or 8 years now. Never heard a word about any problems. Several have even claimed better mileage. Where on line you can find this I don't know. I called the fellow that spoke to me about doing this to his stock FZ6R. He sold the bike but said he ran it for 6 years , no problems. Many times on 89 & 90 octane fuel at all temperatures. Soon as I get the time and energy I'm installing it on my bike.
Tom
Hey Tom, any updates on your installation? Mine may be here this week.
 

Half-Click Up

Active Member
(half-clickup) It's dove hunting season here. Everything else is on the back burner. Maybe later this fall.
Tom
Mine will actually be delivered today (early). Gonna order a new set of timing cover gaskets before I do the swap, though... nothing worse than a gasket coming apart upon disassembly and not having a new one ready just in case.

On a separate note, how do you think fueling relates to this timing advance? I've got the trims turned up on my fuel controller for a little kick in the pants, but it's obviously quite rich as evidenced by the bike's smell at idle. Do you think it would be wise to turn the trims back down when running a timing advance?
 

tdnathens

Member
(half-clickup) I will make no fuel changes. I removed the catalytic converter with an exhaust pipe change. Removed the air injection with block off plate install. This 4 degree wheel will be the final change I make on my bike. These three things cost very little. They are easy and fast to do. They make your bike run cooler, last longer, sound better, weight less, get better MPG and add measurable horse power. For myself it seems most everything else cost a lot, takes a lot of time and gives very little for the trouble you go through. If your young and want to spend the time and money to make other changes I think it's great. I used to do it and I love reading about what everyone else does to their bikes. On my bike the changes I made and will make are from reading and learning what everyone on this forum did to their bikes. If someone comes up with something new I feel is worth it, I'll make that change on my bike.
Tom
 

Half-Click Up

Active Member
(half-clickup) I will make no fuel changes. I removed the catalytic converter with an exhaust pipe change. Removed the air injection with block off plate install. This 4 degree wheel will be the final change I make on my bike. These three things cost very little. They are easy and fast to do. They make your bike run cooler, last longer, sound better, weight less, get better MPG and add measurable horse power. For myself it seems most everything else cost a lot, takes a lot of time and gives very little for the trouble you go through. If your young and want to spend the time and money to make other changes I think it's great. I used to do it and I love reading about what everyone else does to their bikes. On my bike the changes I made and will make are from reading and learning what everyone on this forum did to their bikes. If someone comes up with something new I feel is worth it, I'll make that change on my bike.
Tom
Tom,

I completely understand where you're coming from. I've been on this bike for nearly 7 years and 65,000 miles now, and have even had the head completely torn down on the workbench for preventative maintenance in the past year, so I can appreciate your goals of longevity; I share those goals.

I backed off the trim adjustments on my fuel controller yesterday. Will be relying on the dyno tune in its entirety when I install this 4 degree advanced pickup rotor.
 

DannyByrd

Member
Big props to Martin (AKA Marthy), Rumpig from this site and FinalImpact from the FZ6 Forum for being very thorough doing all the hard research work on this mod. Maybe not for the faint of heart because if you don't do it right, your motor knocks itself to death and becomes a molten blob of aluminum.... but don't let that bother you!

So you can search the names above to get the details, which I won't repeat here. I bought a second timing trigger in case I messed up filing it, so my bike would not be down. I think I paid $15 shipped. Mine was used from a FZ6, but it is exactly the same as ours. They are only $5-$6 on-line new, but the freight kills ya. I got mine on E-bay.

Here are my secrets to success doing this:
1. Buy a second trigger wheel if you want to be safe. I got it right the first time, you probably will too, but it's cheap insurance

2. Buy a new cover gasket. It is metal, but has some gasket goo on it from the factory

3. Index the wheel (mark it) before you remove it. Without taking a cover off the other side of the engine, there is not an easy way to hold the shaft from spinning when reinsatalling. You can use this mark to impact wrench the bolt back on, carefully, to get the torque close enough

4. Use an impact gun to remove the trigger wheel. Easy peasy.

5. Use a good pair of digital calipers. This is pretty precise stuff here! I believe our bikes come OEM at 6.5 degrees idle timing. The higher performance version of our engine comes OEM at 10 degrees. maybe it was 10.5 (?). The timing trigger has a nub on the back of it you want to file so it can rotate it 3-4 more degrees clockwise (more advanced) within the notch on the shaft. I choose to be a bit conservative, because filing exactly straight is not a perfect science and I live in a hot climate where timing too advanced can cause knocking.

6. The nub on the back of the wheel that fits in the shaft keyway, starting width is 0.197" wide (un-filed). I verified this multiple times, zeroing out the caliper to get repeated same results so I wasn't holding anything crooked.... which is easy to do.

My target was between:
+ 3.0 degrees = take off .027" (that's not much folks) Final width after filing: 0.17" = Final timing at idle: 9.5
+ 3.3 degrees = .take off:.030" Final width after filing:0.167 = Final timing at idle: 9.8

You can see from the pics how I ended up. Pretty happy with my result.

7. I used a fairly large file with smooth surface edge so I would not scar up the wheel to badly. I finished with a jewelers file. The smaller file was much harder to keep at 90 degrees. Not only is that very small amount to file precisely, but so is keeping it square. File a little & measure frequently!!!!

8. Several others who documented their doing this either peened the other side of the nub, or even went to the extent of welding a bit of metal on and filing the other side to get back to the original shaft keyway width of 0.197". I was going to peen it, but after talking with Martin and seeing for myself, I don't think there is any real need to do this. So I ended up with a narrower nub, that when inserted on the shaft you could rotate it approx 3 degrees, back and forth. The thing to realize is, this wheel has no force applied to it when in use. All the bolt does that holds it there, is hold the weight of the trigger on the end of the shaft when it spins like crazy. I suppose there is some slight magnetic force from the timing pick-up. But that is minimal at best. When you tighten the bolt clockwise it automatically forces the wheel to the advanced, clockwise position against the right wall of the keyway... just where you want it. The .027-.030"" gap on the other side is immaterial. Locktight and approx 25ftlbs and that wheel is never moving.

9. I tried using torque wrench to reinstall, but as peviously documented the shaft and cam chain spins too easily. So I very carefully used the impact gun to tighten back to the mark I indexed before I removed it. I used lock tight. Close enough. Thank you Martin for this tip!

So what are the results? GREAT! My research said that 1st & 2nd are ignition retarded by the ECU, but 3rd and up are not. So my expectation was little improvement in the first two gears, and something noticeable starting in 3rd. Here are my findings:

a. Bike starts faster, that is it doesn't crank as long before it starts. That's a good thing.

b. First gear definitely pulls harder from mid to top RPM. Now, when I roll on first and hold it open, the front wheel gets lighter during the top third of the rev range. Noticeable improvement. I don't have to rip open the throttle in 1st to get air under the front tire.

c. 3rd gear is stronger no doubt.... but it's kinda hard on my country roads to fully rev out 3rd & 4th or your approaching double digit speed. I believe there is discernible improvement though

d. The bike sounds different. So my bike is loud as hell with essentially a Marthy exhaust using a Delkevic DS70 can, block off plates and a fully cut airbox. Seems silly to say it, but the bike is a bit quieter, and it just sounds a little different. Not good or bad, just slightly different. My "justification logic" says it sounds better. Maybe it sounds a little smoother??? Maybe me imagining that.

e. It should improve mileage a tad, but I have not verified this.

What are the downsides of this mod?
1. Filing off too much or not filing it straight, advancing the timing too much and getting knock (ping), which comes from premature detonation and is hard on, or can destroy the engine. You should get enough knock warning before that point though. Listen to your bike.

2. Where before you can use Premium or Regular gas, now you need to use Premium or it will most likely knock, especially in hot weather. If you commute a lot and want to use cheaper Regular gas, this is not the mod for you. I doubt any mileage improvement will offset the cost of Premium. I used Premium anyway, so this was a non-event for me.

3. You may want to (need to if you advanced the timing too much) go to one heat range colder plug. It is not necessary depending one the quality Premium gas you get, how hot it is where you live and how much you advanced the ignition. If I get any knock, which I have not yet and don't expect at approx. 9 degrees, it's easy enough to go to colder plugs.

4. You need to sit further forward to keep the wheelies down :)

The best part is I only have a few bucks in this mod for the used trigger (which technically I did not even need... but now I can go back to stock if I want to without buying one in the future), and the gasket.

I am happy and recommend it, however your results may vary and I am not responsible for your bike, and I don't recommend smoking or cage fighting either so choose wisely!

My next, an last mod coming up is to instal my -1 front sprocket. I am going to ride the bike for a few days if the weather cooperates before changing the sprocket. I think that will be enough for me, not doing + 1 or 2 in the rear. I don't ride long distances on the highway all that much, but don't want it buzzing too high at freeway speeds. I think the timing advance and 15 tooth front sprocket will liven it up enough for me. Yay.
Awesome, much informational.:) Appreciate the write up, Keep sharing and Ride safe.
 


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