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pooty
smart man wing8872
- Status
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sportrider
"self control" is a liar. I can't tell you how many guys I've heard try and justify there purchase, with the line " I'll take it easy until I get experienced" I was just at a dealer the other day listening to this kid try and talk his dad into buying him a GSXR-1000 as a first bike saying he would only ride it in the reduced power mode tell he got "good" on it. having had an FZ6 spending time riding a Ninja 250 in the twisties and now riding an R1, I'll tell you first hand the Ninja is the easiest bike to ride, not only is it the lightest, it is the most forgiving if you make a mistake. while the FZ6 is timid at low RPMs it doesn't take but a second to get into the power band, and the difference between the powerband on a 600 and a 250 is night and day. as a new rider things can happen faster than they might be able to process and could end up writing a check that they don't have the experience to cash.
Anyone CAN learn on ANY bike, it varies by person, I have a friend that learned on a brand new 2005 GSXR1000 and has never had any problems because he was responsible, Now that doesn't mean that the overwhelming majority would have severe issues in learning to ride in the same fashion that he did. Being an online forum and dealing with the majority of the population we must make generalizations. I truly hope that you are one of the majority that can learn on a 100hp bike and keep yourself within your limits, but the point that needs to be made is that if you took 10 motorcycle virgins and tossed them on any modern 600cc supersport I would almost guarantee that more than half would have some sort of incident by the end of their first month.
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towa
I believe there is a huge difference in learning. In Denmark (and I belive in the rest of the EU) You will have to go to driving school with professional driving instructors for at least a month - typicall 2 months, before You are alloowed to drive by Your own. Also If You are under 21 - Your are only allowed to ride a MC with less than 34 HP.
Also it is mandatory to take safty courses on professional race track as part of the education. I do not say that Im now a totally experienced driver - but We have learned how to handle it.
Funny in EU most Young riders ride under 250 cc, and almost no one above 21 would ride a bike under 600cc. Also the speed limits in EU are different, we (in Denmark) can travel with 130 Kph (81 mph) on higways - and going to Germany - its totally legal to go as fast as You can the highway - and here You pretty much get stuck in the inner lane with a Ninja 250 cc.
Also it is mandatory to take safty courses on professional race track as part of the education. I do not say that Im now a totally experienced driver - but We have learned how to handle it.
Funny in EU most Young riders ride under 250 cc, and almost no one above 21 would ride a bike under 600cc. Also the speed limits in EU are different, we (in Denmark) can travel with 130 Kph (81 mph) on higways - and going to Germany - its totally legal to go as fast as You can the highway - and here You pretty much get stuck in the inner lane with a Ninja 250 cc.
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Wildcard
This is my first post and I've been trolling the forum for the last month now reading up on everything FZ6.
I am a beginner rider. The only experience I have had is ridding my roommate's Ninja 500 around in the neighborhood to get comfortable with riding. I read this article completely and think it is full of very useful information and I take it to heart. I am however going to be picking up an FZ6 in the next week or two.
As most have agreed and I am aware that it is not an easy bike to begin with. However I will do my best to respect the machine for what it is and be as careful and defensive as possible while riding it. For the first few months or so I will only be riding it to and from work and my girlfriends house and church where I know the roads aren't busy and I know every detail about potholes and gravel patches like the back of my hand. I know noone wants to be a statistic but I realize I am taking that risk. Being a new bike will also make me baby it since being a mechanic I know the kind of care a new engine needs. I will try my best to post up on the forums here and keep people posted about anything that goes down whether good or bad(I like to be an example to others on what to do or not do haha)
I am a beginner rider. The only experience I have had is ridding my roommate's Ninja 500 around in the neighborhood to get comfortable with riding. I read this article completely and think it is full of very useful information and I take it to heart. I am however going to be picking up an FZ6 in the next week or two.
As most have agreed and I am aware that it is not an easy bike to begin with. However I will do my best to respect the machine for what it is and be as careful and defensive as possible while riding it. For the first few months or so I will only be riding it to and from work and my girlfriends house and church where I know the roads aren't busy and I know every detail about potholes and gravel patches like the back of my hand. I know noone wants to be a statistic but I realize I am taking that risk. Being a new bike will also make me baby it since being a mechanic I know the kind of care a new engine needs. I will try my best to post up on the forums here and keep people posted about anything that goes down whether good or bad(I like to be an example to others on what to do or not do haha)
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Cuba
Personally I've found the FZ6 to be a great beginner bike. I had ZERO experience, I had only ridden ATVs with manual transmissions, and that was rare and years ago. I learned on an R6 in a parking lot and a quick ride around the block a few times before picking up the FZ6 at a dealer and riding it home. I've had no incidents, no drops, no near accidents, it has been great. That being said I've had a few occassions that made me nervous on the bike, but this is part of the learning process. After 2 weeks I was competent in regular riding skills, traffic, hills, highway, back roads, potholes, rain, etc. because I took the MSF course, paid attention, and put these lessons into action. Watching the road, paying very close attention to traffic, expecting that car up ahead to do something stupid, expecting there to be gravel or a dead cow around a blind corner, remembering to look through the turns, not fixate, stay committed, never panic, be smooth, avoid painted lines in the rain, wear the right gear, stay visible, use enough space, SEE etc. etc. etc.
Saying that a 600cc bike is not a beginner's bike is simply not true. While I totally agree that it's more than most should start with I don't think that everyone needs to start on a 250. As the MSF coaches say, riding a motorcycle is all about accepting your personal level of risk. Is it more risky than a 250? Probably. Not if that used 250 has some deffered maintenance you don't know about like a chain that's about to break and lock up the rear wheel though. There are too many factors involved to say "This bike is okay, this one is not." It would be less risky to not ride at all. Much less risky to never drive a car either. You can be really safe sitting on your couch instead.
I don't think there is such a thing as a "beginner's bike". It is an individual decision, you have to take into account the rider, not just the bike. The bike is an object, it is not inherently dangerous in any way, whether it's a 25cc scooter or a 1300cc supersport. This is similar to people saying guns are dangerous. Guess what, they aren't, period. A gun in the wrong hands makes the person holding it dangerous. I have a .357 magnum loaded with partially jacketed hollow points that will never, ever hurt anyone, period. It can't. It's as safe as a kitchen sponge, safer actually because those sponges have dangerous bacteria on them. It only becomes dangerous in either malicious or stupid hands. A beginner at shooting doesn't need to start with a single shot .22 caliber target pistol, that's rediculous. You wouldn't argue that giving a kid a .22 is less danerous that a .45 would you? They can easily kill themselves or those around them with either. It depends on the PERSON, not the mechanical device they are operating.
I agree that it is a more conservative approach to buy a used 250, but that isn't a blanket answer for everyone getting into the sport. Generally I agree that it has a greater margin for error, but again it is up to the riders to decide what is an acceptable level of risk for themselves. I would rather a hypothetical 16yr old child of mine started out small, but for me the FZ6 was the right choice. It has everything I want, comfort, reliability, looks, great handling, decent power, a great forum with very helpful fellow riders, and it's something I won't immediately grow out of. I could have bought a 250 a few months ago and would be beating myself up for doing it now that I had grown out of it. It wouldn't be as fun, and that's why I got into this. I accept the level of risk associated with a more powerful bike as a trade off for the sheer enjoyment of riding it. I'm not an exception to the rule, there is no rule, only personal perceptions and opinions. Of course if it's a 16yr old buying a used Hybusa I would call it suicidal, but that's just my opinion. For me the FZ6 is a very reasonable choice as a first bike for someone that has taken an MSF course and isn't an idiot.
Saying that a 600cc bike is not a beginner's bike is simply not true. While I totally agree that it's more than most should start with I don't think that everyone needs to start on a 250. As the MSF coaches say, riding a motorcycle is all about accepting your personal level of risk. Is it more risky than a 250? Probably. Not if that used 250 has some deffered maintenance you don't know about like a chain that's about to break and lock up the rear wheel though. There are too many factors involved to say "This bike is okay, this one is not." It would be less risky to not ride at all. Much less risky to never drive a car either. You can be really safe sitting on your couch instead.
I don't think there is such a thing as a "beginner's bike". It is an individual decision, you have to take into account the rider, not just the bike. The bike is an object, it is not inherently dangerous in any way, whether it's a 25cc scooter or a 1300cc supersport. This is similar to people saying guns are dangerous. Guess what, they aren't, period. A gun in the wrong hands makes the person holding it dangerous. I have a .357 magnum loaded with partially jacketed hollow points that will never, ever hurt anyone, period. It can't. It's as safe as a kitchen sponge, safer actually because those sponges have dangerous bacteria on them. It only becomes dangerous in either malicious or stupid hands. A beginner at shooting doesn't need to start with a single shot .22 caliber target pistol, that's rediculous. You wouldn't argue that giving a kid a .22 is less danerous that a .45 would you? They can easily kill themselves or those around them with either. It depends on the PERSON, not the mechanical device they are operating.
I agree that it is a more conservative approach to buy a used 250, but that isn't a blanket answer for everyone getting into the sport. Generally I agree that it has a greater margin for error, but again it is up to the riders to decide what is an acceptable level of risk for themselves. I would rather a hypothetical 16yr old child of mine started out small, but for me the FZ6 was the right choice. It has everything I want, comfort, reliability, looks, great handling, decent power, a great forum with very helpful fellow riders, and it's something I won't immediately grow out of. I could have bought a 250 a few months ago and would be beating myself up for doing it now that I had grown out of it. It wouldn't be as fun, and that's why I got into this. I accept the level of risk associated with a more powerful bike as a trade off for the sheer enjoyment of riding it. I'm not an exception to the rule, there is no rule, only personal perceptions and opinions. Of course if it's a 16yr old buying a used Hybusa I would call it suicidal, but that's just my opinion. For me the FZ6 is a very reasonable choice as a first bike for someone that has taken an MSF course and isn't an idiot.
DefyInertia
New Member
So why exactly do you feel so strongly about this?
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lordplayer
Last week I put a $500 deposit down on a new 08 cobalt blue FZ6. At that point I'd never even ridden a motorcycle. I took and passed the MSF course this weekend thinking it would give me the necessary skills to be able to ride the FZ6. Although I'm light years ahead of where I was - I now know that I have light years to go.
As the day to close the deal approaches, doubt and a heavy sinking feeling is definitely settling in. Even though this is a very difficult decision, I have decided against the FZ6 this year thanks in large part to this thread.
Even though part of me feels I deserve to treat myself to something nice and new (and holy **** - the FZ6 certainly is), my safety and pocket book will be better off if I just get a used ninja 250. Hardly anyone here has said that a 250 was a waste of time and made anyone less of rider and those that started on the 600cc said it probably wasn't the best decision.
I can say this - I am gonna ride that little ninja into the freakin ground. Then I'm gonna go back to dealer next spring and get a brand new Cobalt Blue 2009 FZ6. I can't wait dudes!!! :rockon:
As the day to close the deal approaches, doubt and a heavy sinking feeling is definitely settling in. Even though this is a very difficult decision, I have decided against the FZ6 this year thanks in large part to this thread.
Even though part of me feels I deserve to treat myself to something nice and new (and holy **** - the FZ6 certainly is), my safety and pocket book will be better off if I just get a used ninja 250. Hardly anyone here has said that a 250 was a waste of time and made anyone less of rider and those that started on the 600cc said it probably wasn't the best decision.
I can say this - I am gonna ride that little ninja into the freakin ground. Then I'm gonna go back to dealer next spring and get a brand new Cobalt Blue 2009 FZ6. I can't wait dudes!!! :rockon:
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KensFz6
I'm glad to hear that you're putting safety first, lordplayer.
I personally started with a yamaha XT250 and endured that strange looks and unreturned waves to other riders for a few months before trading it in for the FZ6.
I can say one thing though, even with a few months of experience in me; Once I took the bike out for the first ride after trailering it home, I was both over-joyed and scared sh!tless at the power-boost!
Despite it all, I really enjoyed the 'dirtbike' when I had it.
Good luck to you in your training, practice a little bit as you go and just go at your own pace, never rush yourself.
I personally started with a yamaha XT250 and endured that strange looks and unreturned waves to other riders for a few months before trading it in for the FZ6.
I can say one thing though, even with a few months of experience in me; Once I took the bike out for the first ride after trailering it home, I was both over-joyed and scared sh!tless at the power-boost!
Despite it all, I really enjoyed the 'dirtbike' when I had it.
Good luck to you in your training, practice a little bit as you go and just go at your own pace, never rush yourself.
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jamesfz6
Funny how everyone i talk to that is uneducated about motorcycles seem to think that the Gsxr (gixxer, gister, hybustas, and the always popular hybiscus) is the way to go because they are the fastest bikes out there. I will never own a suzuki just because suzuki around houston means "squid". I have met plenty of riders and still have yet to meet a suzuki rider that wasnt a jackass.
Reminds me of a story............
A friend of mine just had to get a suzuki for his first bike because everyone told him they were cool and fast. Well, my friend has absolutly no motorcycle experience and wants me to ride it the 35 miles from houston because he doesnt even know how to start it. I ride it back to his house and park it in the driveway, he gets out of his car and sits on the bike a few times, then does a good walk around checking everything out. I have my bike already at his house so i tell him to hop on his new bike and we will ride around the block a few times before i have to leave. He puts on his helmet and tries to start the bike for about a minute or two, i get aggitated and start it for him. I then watch him put his right leg over the bike to stand it up, the only problem was that it stood up but kept on leaning to the right.....he dropped it. Not once but twice and he hadnt even figured out how to put into gear.
Dont know where im going with the story but he ended up dropping the bike 4 or 5 more times that day after i left. He told me he never even sat on it in the store because he was afraid he might drop it.
I am not trying to make fun of my friend just illustrate a point that people like him buy something that everyone else says is cool and it can ened up killing you. By the way that was 4 years ago and my friend has since givin up riding because he totalled out 2 bikes in 2 years so insurance dropped him.
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BranNwebster
I wonder why this is? I saw one the other day on the beltway 8 near 45. Ball cap on backwards, shorts, t-shirt all on a GSXR.
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champion221elite
Excellent read, and even better advice. 600 cc sportbikes are not for beginners! The points brought up make perfect sense. I'm truly thankful that I was given this same advice several years ago when getting involved in motorcycles.
Bottom line... start small and gain experience. Who cares what other people think as long as you're learning and having fun. As you gain experience, that is the time to extend the "rider/ machine" contract. 600 cc sportbikes are FAR more capable than the average beginner rider is able to handle.
Bottom line... start small and gain experience. Who cares what other people think as long as you're learning and having fun. As you gain experience, that is the time to extend the "rider/ machine" contract. 600 cc sportbikes are FAR more capable than the average beginner rider is able to handle.
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FZTofer
Re: How do you restrict engine output?
also you didn't mention if the rider had had experience on a dirt bike.... what if thats the case??
also my parents being previous riders said they would never help me buy a Suzuki because they say "they make piece of sh*t bikes" (don't want to start anything by that, just what my parents said) and obviously being a college student I have very limited funds and for all the highway driving I do the 250's would not hold up very well for me.... seems like a little bit of a dilemma.. what would yall suggest?
thats what I was wondering
also you didn't mention if the rider had had experience on a dirt bike.... what if thats the case??
also my parents being previous riders said they would never help me buy a Suzuki because they say "they make piece of sh*t bikes" (don't want to start anything by that, just what my parents said) and obviously being a college student I have very limited funds and for all the highway driving I do the 250's would not hold up very well for me.... seems like a little bit of a dilemma.. what would yall suggest?
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Gopher
Re: How do you restrict engine output?
Good advice...
@ FZTofer... If you already ride a 250, the next logical step would seem to be a 400 or a 600... something like the CB or FZ... yes, they are very powerful, but are no where near as powerful as the sportsbikes from which their engines are derived. The CBF600S for example has the same engine as the CBR600RR, and packs a nice, managable 76BHP, but it is detuned by a whopping 42BHP! Making the bike a little more tame, but still with plenty of power. If you've ever had the opportunity to ride something like the CBF/FZ6 (which most people here seem to have lol), then suddenly those extra few horses that the sports bikes have (Ie- the CBR/YZF) start to bring into context, just exactly what Sportrider is saying.
Erm, Ive missed something there... if your using the bike to commute to and from college, why do you need something bigger than a 250? They've still got plenty of grunt, and are cheaper to run (a little bit anyways)... are you falling foul of what sportrider said in his first post? Becoming a bit of a poser maybe? If you use your 250, and it is serving the purpose fine, then why bother upgrading, especially when funds are limited as you say....?
Good advice...
@ FZTofer... If you already ride a 250, the next logical step would seem to be a 400 or a 600... something like the CB or FZ... yes, they are very powerful, but are no where near as powerful as the sportsbikes from which their engines are derived. The CBF600S for example has the same engine as the CBR600RR, and packs a nice, managable 76BHP, but it is detuned by a whopping 42BHP! Making the bike a little more tame, but still with plenty of power. If you've ever had the opportunity to ride something like the CBF/FZ6 (which most people here seem to have lol), then suddenly those extra few horses that the sports bikes have (Ie- the CBR/YZF) start to bring into context, just exactly what Sportrider is saying.
Erm, Ive missed something there... if your using the bike to commute to and from college, why do you need something bigger than a 250? They've still got plenty of grunt, and are cheaper to run (a little bit anyways)... are you falling foul of what sportrider said in his first post? Becoming a bit of a poser maybe? If you use your 250, and it is serving the purpose fine, then why bother upgrading, especially when funds are limited as you say....?
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ReblTeen84
I bought the FZ6 as my first bike (after my dirtbike anyway, but that was years ago). I bought it mainly because of its comfort...butt tested many many bikes at the dealer and would up buying this one used. Took the MSF class using Rebel 250's and wasn't impressed with them. Do I think i need 600cc? No. I've never gone above about 6500 RPM and plan on keeping it that way for awhile..I don't ride on interstates either...i go out of my way to keep to the back roads and secondary highways (rt. 1, prince william and fairfax county parkway, etc) because I know i'm inexperienced. However, after having ridden the FZ6 for the last few weeks, i'm in love with it. Its comfortable and more or less tame. Do I wish i'd started with a 250? Not really. Might have been better for me, but I prefer comfort over power and I didn't find a 250 that I was comfortable on.
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FZTofer
Re: How do you restrict engine output?
as for the poser remark... if I was a poser I would get a Honda CBR like every little 16-17 year old boy had his mommy and daddy buy him... I know 8 people in my area (all younger them me) that have CBR's and I hate them... Thats why I have been looking at the FZ6 its not a sportbike but its got good power.. enough to get me around on the highway..
No, I go to community college and the only logical way to get there from where I live is via highway... 250cc bike on the highway doesn't seem like it would be very well suited for it... If I was on a campus then yea, I would go with a 250cc because I wouldn't have to take the highway to get around
as for the poser remark... if I was a poser I would get a Honda CBR like every little 16-17 year old boy had his mommy and daddy buy him... I know 8 people in my area (all younger them me) that have CBR's and I hate them... Thats why I have been looking at the FZ6 its not a sportbike but its got good power.. enough to get me around on the highway..
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sportrider
just to clarify, I've made the same commute I'm doing now on my R1, on the Ninja 250. even the Lil Ninja is more then capable of exceeding the speed limit. the difference is on my old FZ6 or on my R1 I can break it faster. and that is where the danger lies for an inexperienced rider. If people think the Ninja is less then capable I challenge any "new" rider on there 600cc bike to try and keep up with me on the Ninja through the twisties. I think you would be enlightened and realize it's not the bike it's the rider and for a new rider 100HP is trouble.
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Smittyboy
I agree 100%, but that being said. Speaking from personal experience, I had one oops with the first time I rode the bike, but after that it has been smooth sailing. (knock on wood) The only way (in my experience) you can find a way to get in trouble with this bike is to rev the holy $hit out of it. Down low it's a puppy dog. In the middle it's peppy, and up high is the only danger zone. But by that time most noobs (speaking personally) are gunshy from making the bike bark that high. Even after break in I didn't cross 10k until a good while after riding. This bike stops on a dime, corners like it's on rails, and is very manageable on the rev-o-meter until about 8k. Just my opinion. $.02
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notjohndavid
There's some really great info in this post. There's a guy here at work that wants a big cruiser... 1200+cc's. He's never been on a bike except once where he said he was doing doughnuts and wheelies because he didn't know how to control the throttle and it scared the poopy out of him. I kept trying to tell me he needed a smaller bike to ride for a while to get the hang of things but he didn't believe me :-/
so then I printed this article off for him to read today. Let's hope he does and takes it to heart. :thumbup:
so then I printed this article off for him to read today. Let's hope he does and takes it to heart. :thumbup:
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hiway
I don't think there is a canned one fit answer for every person out there. It all comes down to a multitude of factors.
Preaching sometimes actually drives people into the opposite of your point in today's society.
The best advice I think anyone can give is to take the safety course with a course provided bike and see how well you are doing.
No person is alike in their coordination, experience, knowledge, and awareness. I have been a instructor in the Air Force and some people understand many of the more advanced flying techniques quickly and some continue to struggle and require many reminders and currency to stay safe.
Confidence should be grounded in fundamentals and hands on experience. How fast a person get's to a safe level for -any- size motorcycle is vastly different.
Preaching sometimes actually drives people into the opposite of your point in today's society.
The best advice I think anyone can give is to take the safety course with a course provided bike and see how well you are doing.
No person is alike in their coordination, experience, knowledge, and awareness. I have been a instructor in the Air Force and some people understand many of the more advanced flying techniques quickly and some continue to struggle and require many reminders and currency to stay safe.
Confidence should be grounded in fundamentals and hands on experience. How fast a person get's to a safe level for -any- size motorcycle is vastly different.
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