Potential Riders MUST READ!!!!!

[sportrider]

in the U.S. (well California anyways) all that is required is 250cc or bigger with all the standard control to classify it as a "motorcycle" not a moped or scooter.

 

[Nelly]

This has been a very enlightening thread. Let' say you have bought a used Fz6 and after reading all this you think that maybe it would be wiser to not learn how to ride again on this powerful a bike. How can you actually restrict the engine power to avoid the "pothole" or bump situation described above where the bike suddenly jumps 4000+ rpm. Thanks for the advice.

Hi Mate, im not sure how they restrict the engine. Scorphonic, is (I beleive) the european rider on the restricted engine. If you PM him im sure he will give you the low down on it.

 

[javamad]

Does moving up from a 125cc scooter mean I shouldnt?

HI,

I have a 125cc Maxi-Scooter - I know you US guys will laugh at an european vehicle being called maxi :-D

The scooter weights around 160 kg (350 lbs) and has 15HP. I use it to get around Madrid and I have done a few day trips on B roads. I wear full protective gear even in summer (helmet,gloves, summer jacket with protections, strong shoes) even though all around me are in shorts and tee-shirt ... ( we got to 38 C in the shade this year :thumbup: )
My riding style is 'careful' .. lots of prediction, giving people room, plenty of livesavers and I only lane-filter when the traffic is stopped. I even obey the city speed limits when I could go a lot faster on my scooter.

I love biking and I want a better bike to do some weekend touring. Anything I get will be limited for 2 years to 34HP - but I understand the PAR will be not be limited unless the max comes at high revs.

I was thinking of getting a Triumph Sprint St but I am worried that it´ll be too big so I have settled on 600cc´s size.

I´m currently looking at the ER6-F and the FZ6 and I´ll be adding side panniers.


So anyway, would I be mad to get a limited 600cc bike?


Thanks in advance for any advice,

 

[javamad]

Limited

When I say limited it´s because in Europe you can´t ride a bike with more than 34 HP for the first 2 years of your type A motorcycle license.

All manufacturers who are serious about the EU market make limitation kits for their bikes to limit the power output.
Some use special engine control chips (a limiter chip would dull down the max revs AND use a very stringent mixture so you get reduced torque too), others just put a physical rev limiter on. With the rev limiter option you still get the full engine torque.

I think the Fazer is very easy to ride around town and great on the highway

Hmmm... I have read in a few places that the injection is a bit jumpy at low revs....

 

[javamad]

Actually I´ve just seen it mentioned elsewhere as "restricted"´by people from the UK.... so pardon my Spanglish... I have only spoken about bikes in Spanish so far

 

[nimzotech]

I see it this way. If you are moving over 20 MPH you can get killed on almost anything. The faster we move the chance of us hitting something else is increased. For that matter even a 250CC Ninja can get us killed. Yes, it is true that a 600cc FZ6 has (more than) double the horsepower than a 250CC Ninja; getting a smaller size CC size engine does not make it safer. I would recommend taking an MSF course as a pre-requisite to any motorcycle riding. Also, practicing all those exercises in an MSF course on your own time is very valuable. As far as choosing bikes, I think that riding skill, rider size, fit, comfort are more important than CC Engine size.

P.S.
I was going to get a 250-500CC used bike as my first ride. However after doing bike research, taking my MSF course, and trying different bikes, my perception changed. I no longer wanted a GS500F - it felt awkward under my large 6' frame; my knees were riding up little too high on the Ninja 250CC gas tank. The Harley Sportsters 883 were too expensive, though they fit well. Having decided to choose a larger and more comfortable bike I had the FZ6, SV650, or the 650 Ninja to choose from. The moment I sat on the FZ6 I just knew it was the bike for me.

 

[Doorag]

I've been commuting about 25 miles RT in London for 8 months now on my Honda XR125L that has about 11HP. It's an off-road style bike with dual purpose tyres and a very upright riding position. My plan all along was to ride the 125 until I was comfortable and had passed my test, then move up to a bigger bike.

I passed my 'Direct Access' test back in December so I've been testing bikes and looking around for a while now, but haven't bought anything. I've tried the CBF600, CBR800, an ER-6, one of the new GSX650Fs and of course the FZ6-S2.

Now - I fought with the FZ on the first test ride. Even stalled it a couple of times (I didn't stall any of the other bikes) at lights, but I just chalked that up to not being familiar with the clutch and the bike. That was on a new demo bike that they user for all the test rides, but that wasn't the bike I would actually buy. I'm going back tomorrow morning to test the actual bike I want to see how it rides in comparison. It has a few mods already like Scorpion cans, alarm/immobiliser, fancy rim tape and a rear box (very important).

But now I'm thinking twice. Maybe I should consider getting it restricted even though I don't have to.

I'll need to commute about 90-100 miles per day a few days a week for the next 6-9 months so I need to get something that will be good on the motorway. I'm sure a restricted bike will get me along with plenty of 'go' to spare.

Arrrggghhh! Now I'm confused!

Another reason I wanted to get a bigger bike was ao I could start doing the IAM (advanced motorcycle training). You have to have a bike that can go the national speed limit and my 125 won't or I would have started the training before now.

I'm rambling now. Any comments are welcome.

 

[steveindenmark]

"This is your first bike, not your last."

Without the correct training and experience the FZ6 could be your first bike but unfortunately your last as well.

Just take your time and start on something with less HP and move up gradually. That way you will have a long and happy riding career.

We want to see more FZ6 riders in here but we also want to keep all of us alive.

Steve

 

[Mattberkshire]

Doorag: where to start.... You obviously realise that having a bike is nothing like driving a car. A bike is a phenominally powerful machine. Even a Honda 500. The power to weight ratio is unlike anyhthing most car drivers will ever experience. When I first started riding I was AMAZED how powerful a bike was. That was on a kwak ER5 which is puny in comparison to the FZ6.

My first comment would be, buy one and don't restrict it. As you full well know the power is there and is available BUT you don't have to use it. As a relatively inexperienced biker you have all the raw materials needed. The one thing you don't have is experience but given your proposed usage that will come.

As long as you are happy with your basic skills then you can ride any bike. You know not to rev it to **** and get out of control. You can use 1/4 throttle and pootle along quite nicely. Then when you are happy with the experience you can use more throttle to get more speed and more thrills.

When riding a powerful bike you have an obligation to yourself and those who care about you not to overdo things. It is a dangerous occupation. The merest mistake can result in you becoming a greasy smear on the front of a lorry. So therefore you must build up your skills base. A biker NEVER stops learning and should never eschew training, even if this is through more biking and therefore experience. Get yourself on an advanced training course or a track day if you think this may help.

Trust me, after some regular riding you will realise every single mile is a new experience and the best thing you can learn is the unpredicability of other road users. Today I went to overtake a white van man who decided to overtake the car in front without indicating and whilst rolling a cigarette. I gave him the v's whilst on the right hand edge of the road. He was unaware of me until I was in front.

Don't rstrict the bike. Just be aware of it's strengths and your limitations

 

[Doorag]

Well, I bought the FZ yesterday and didn't have it restricted. I got along much better on this bike as opposed to the first one I rode. I'll definitely take it easy - I have an 8 month old at home, and I'm not 25 anymore.

 

[Raid The Revenge]

.....
.....

 

[JONAC]

Well, I bought the FZ yesterday and didn't have it restricted. I got along much better on this bike as opposed to the first one I rode. I'll definitely take it easy - I have an 8 month old at home, and I'm not 25 anymore.

My FZ6 was my first big bike apart from a honda 90 many years ago and various blasts on trials bikes as a kid (totally illegal I might add and I'm ashamed to say ... maybe ) The UK was great in the 70s and 80s !! ask Gene Hunt .... long story !!!

Anyhow .... getting back on track, I personally feel the same as Buggerlugs on this issue. If you are mature enough to respect the bike then it is a great 600 machine to start out on... I'm coming up to almost 3k miles on mine now since last summer and it is such a fantasic bike to progress on. My experience levels have come on leaps and bounds because of the forgivingness and ease of handling of the FZ6.

I also wouldn't have got it restricted, Just start out nice and easy and get loads of time in practicing slow handling in a car park or somewhere similar. Also def get on a track day !!! You will learn more in one day than months and months of road riding with regards to your bikes capabilities ...

There will be others that say differently and I dare say that many of those are by far more experienced than I so take all this advice however you wish to..

Get out there and have a good time on it.. But be mature with it also... It is a very very quick bike and will almost definatley scare you at least once in the near future :thumbup:

:Sport:

 

[d11gla]

Very similar situation!

I am 25 years old, and previously had KTM 125(offroad-only) for about 20 months in 2005/6. Decided to do bike test before October this year when all the rules change (there going to make it much harder to pass test)! And I had always wanted my bike licence, just never got round to it yet. I have 101miles on the clock of my new FZ6 S2,and they are all the miles i have ever done on the road unacompanied in my life.

I studied and looked and dreamed about most bikes in existence. And at 6"4 and 16st (after wanting a MT-03- single cylinder) I was told for the same money the FZ6 would be and much better buy and stand me in better stead for all round riding.

I read most of the article and it pretty much has decided that never mind what argument you fall under (your going to have trouble trying to ride with no experience) which is a fact anyway.

Yes its a powerful bike
Yes its high reving and can get you in trouble fast
but
It is easy and comfortable to ride
It is not the fastest bike in the world (mid range in my opininon)

And with regards to the article afformentioned each to there own, if you think you are mature enough to be responsible with this machine, get one!

PS Quote my dealer the day i paid my deposit "I dont want to sound patronising, but this is a quick bike and you can get in to serious trouble, seriosuly fast. But you look like a sensible lad to me!"

I bought a fz6 a week ago as my first street bike at 26 years old after riding dirt for more than half my life. I don't feel that I made a poor decision but I already knew how to ride on two wheels. I know I would have gotten bored very quickly on a gs500 or ninja 500 since they have less power to weight than the motocross bikes I have been on for years.

I think the vanity arguement is the one that gets it for most people or else bad advice saying that 600s are a good starter size. I have seen plenty of forums where riders have advised 600s as a good first bike. Mostly it's young guys that want something cool looking and they can't impress people with a rebel 250.

I guess this all reminds me of when i let a friend take my honda CR250 mx bike for a ride when we were both about 16. He might have made it 30 feet before the bike was doing a backflip and him landing on his butt. Come to think of it he still owes me for new handlebars. But after riding my new FZ I can imagine what this same scenario would play out like with someone accidentally grabbing a handfull of throttle in traffic on a sportbike.

 

[d11gla]

After i completed my first dirt bike race, (last, last and second last in 3 races) haha!!
I went to practice a week later, was full of myself because i had completed the 3 races with 30+ riders the week before, and ended up landin upside down off a table top which landed me in hospital for 2 days with no memory of before after and during the fall to this day! besides the helicopter this pretty much backs up exactly what you say.

Everyone makes their own choices in life, and im one of them ppl that likes to say "i did it" i suppose. If it was up to other ppl to make decisions for you i wouldnt have ended up with my fz6! my parents, girlfriend, workmates and all insundry didnt want to see me get a bike, and they all said the same thing - bikes are dangerous!

 

[Jeremiah]

"*The beginner bikes you recommend are dated and ugly looking.
*I want something that's modern and stylish.
*I want a bike that looks good and that I look good on.
I call these the vanity arguments. These are probably the worst reasons you can have for wanting a particular bike. "

Should edit this out now that the EX250 has modern styling. I just looked at one on the showroom floor - they're NICE :thumbup:

 

[HavBlue]

Yes, I read the whole thing and to tell you the truth it is way to long. I would doubt there are too many new riders that would take the time to read it all. Why? It isn't what they want to read. To many people bikes are no different than cars and especially to those folks who are above around 40 who now have enough money to buy what they want. I can't tell you how many bikes sit on Craig's list or in the local paper simply because they got their dream bike and it was way too much for them so off on the block it goes.

As far as the FZ6 being an entry level machine after the MSF classes I disagree as the bike is very diverse and set up properly should be no problem at all. Case in point, when I worked for the US Forest Service in southern California I met a man on a Ducati one day and his wife had an FZ6 fresh off the MSF classes. I thought this a bit much as others have said. He told me he had swapped out the front sprocket and went with the 17T counter. This had taken much of the low end bite out of the FZ6 and she was doing quite well. Another example would be those folks who frequently recommend the likes of the standard SV650 Suzuki. Heck, Harley suggests the 560 pound 883 Sporty as a beginner machine and trust me, the FZ6 is far easier to control and requires far less skill in terms of throttle and clutch control.

Personally, I like the European graduated systems where the rider must possess a defined skill but unfortunately we in the United States give out licenses with every box of Fruit Loops and there are no laws against stupidity.

The article is well written and its points are very true.

Thanks,
Charlie

 

[OneTrack]

Yes, I read the whole thing and to tell you the truth it is way to long. I would doubt there are too many new riders that would take the time to read it all. Why? It isn't what they want to read. To many people bikes are no different than cars and especially to those folks who are above around 40 who now have enough money to buy what they want. I can't tell you how many bikes sit on Craig's list or in the local paper simply because they got their dream bike and it was way too much for them so off on the block it goes.

It's a very good article, but yes, I agree...it's far too long for someone who doesn't want to hear the counter-arguments anyway. What might work better is to list the arguments for a sportbike as a first bike, with a link to the counter-argument....a "menu" if you will.

Personally, I like the European graduated systems where the rider must possess a defined skill but unfortunately we in the United States give out licenses with every box of Fruit Loops and there are no laws against stupidity.

This was the case here in British Columbia until a few years ago. Had I taken my "test" 10 years ago, it would have involved wobbling around a few traffic cones in ICBC's licensing dept's parking lot in front of a bored individual looking at his watch lest he miss his coffee break.
Obtaining a full Class 6 bike license now is much more involved. It is a 'progression' system, beginning with a Knowledge Test, then (after a month) a Skills Test (the cones in the parking lot thing), followed by the Road Test, which takes about one hour and is very intense.
However, there is still no limit on the bike's capacity for learners...a kid can buy an R1 as his first bike if he/she can afford the insurance. I'd like to see some sort of capacity limitation (like the "old days" in England, when a Learner was limited to 250cc until he/she passed the Road Test.
I can say this with certainty: Had I purchased my FZ6 as my first bike back in Jan 07, it's quite probable that it would not have had a happy ending.

 

[HavBlue]

It's a very good article, but yes, I agree...it's far too long for someone who doesn't want to hear the counter-arguments anyway. What might work better is to list the arguments for a sportbike as a first bike, with a link to the counter-argument....a "menu" if you will.



This was the case here in British Columbia until a few years ago. Had I taken my "test" 10 years ago, it would have involved wobbling around a few traffic cones in ICBC's licensing dept's parking lot in front of a bored individual looking at his watch lest he miss his coffee break.
Obtaining a full Class 6 bike license now is much more involved. It is a 'progression' system, beginning with a Knowledge Test, then (after a month) a Skills Test (the cones in the parking lot thing), followed by the Road Test, which takes about one hour and is very intense.
However, there is still no limit on the bike's capacity for learners...a kid can buy an R1 as his first bike if he/she can afford the insurance. I'd like to see some sort of capacity limitation (like the "old days" in England, when a Learner was limited to 250cc until he/she passed the Road Test.
I can say this with certainty: Had I purchased my FZ6 as my first bike back in Jan 07, it's quite probable that it would not have had a happy ending.

I like it this and I agree with the limitation issues in terms of cc's however, there are numerous riders who clearly possess skills even if they are dirt skills and that skill level should be allowed for in terms of some form of waiver system. In this manner their skill will go toward their license and allow those with skills to ride larger cc bikes. An example would be the 16 year old on a 450cc open class dirt bike. He as come from the off road world and now chooses to get some street time in. His skills should be moved over.

Good stuff OneTrack......

Charlie

 

[OneTrack]

I like it this and I agree with the limitation issues in terms of cc's however, there are numerous riders who clearly possess skills even if they are dirt skills and that skill level should be allowed for in terms of some form of waiver system. In this manner their skill will go toward their license and allow those with skills to ride larger cc bikes. An example would be the 16 year old on a 450cc open class dirt bike. He as come from the off road world and now chooses to get some street time in. His skills should be moved over.

Good stuff OneTrack......

Charlie

Yes indeed, there are many young riders who possess amazing skills on dirt bikes. (I met one first hand when I buried myself and my XT at the bottom of a sand dune trying to follow him. He was about 8 years old. ) I guess the question is, how well do those skills migrate to the road? There's no doubt that all the skills to actually ride a bike would be there, but riding on the road is whole 'nuther thing. There would also be the issue of "proving" that you have skills to "move over". Interesting concept, though! :thumbup:

 

[HavBlue]

Yes indeed, there are many young riders who possess amazing skills on dirt bikes. (I met one first hand when I buried myself and my XT at the bottom of a sand dune trying to follow him. He was about 8 years old. ) I guess the question is, how well do those skills migrate to the road? There's no doubt that all the skills to actually ride a bike would be there, but riding on the road is whole 'nuther thing. There would also be the issue of "proving" that you have skills to "move over". Interesting concept, though! :thumbup:

Again, we are in agreement. I think all this can be addressed in the requirement for an MSF class as well as an advanced class for the street. The young rider with advanced dirt skills should have no problem moving over and to me the bike really isn't the issue. Rather, it's a huge difference in hazard awareness and the associated focus levels. In the dirt that rider may be on their own or in a small group. Even on the MX track or flat track the rider is still going the same direction as the flow of traffic whereas on the slab you have folks coming at you from all over the place so hazard awareness becomes a fundamental necessity.

Living in southern California I had a number of friends that had been in the dirt for years. Some of us went both ways and the one issue that others found when making the switch was hazards as they really had to have a solid situational awareness that they really didn't need in the dirt. One such friend went from a worked 540 KTM to a Buell Ulysses and the first ride we went on together was a solid awakening for him as he didn't realize just how different things could be on the slab. Now, it has been almost 2 years for him and he is doing awesome but it was a learning curve as expected.

I simply feel we as veteran riders have a responsibility to those who have not been on the streets before and regardless of which bike that new rider chooses we can offer great insight.