Two Brothers Juice Box + Header?

[cavcuz05]

when i was all said and done on my bike...i was spitting fireballs and had a tremendous Fuel smell...i believe that's running rich right?

 

[owldaddy]

Generally when you install a less restrictive exhaust or intake, you increase air flow through the engine. The injectors continue to squirt the same amount of fuel into the intake, resulting in a leaner mixture. That is unless the FI is capable of compensating for the increased air flow. That depends on the sophistication of the FI system and it's sensors. On our bikes I don't believe the FI is capable of doing that, since there is no way for the system to sense exhaust gases, and increase the fuel ratio. What was probably happening to your bike cavcuz05, was the engine was so lean it was missing now and then, causing unburned fuel to be exhausted, causing the backfires in the exhaust system, and when it doesn't burn there, the fuel smell you noticed. To remedy that problem requires the use of a device that adds fuel to the mixture in the right amounts at the right time. Hence the fuel nannies that are popular for these kinds of modifications. They simply add fuel in the proper amounts, and in the case of most of these devices, they are adjustable so you can custom tune the mixture to meet your engines needs. I have a Techlusion device set up on my BMW. It had serious lean condition problems straight from the factory. It also has a O2 sensor, so it knows what is coming out of the exhaust, but it couldn't compensate for the factory fuel mixture map, since it was designed to run extremely lean. After installing that device and getting it tuned properly, that bike runs like a champ. If anyone wants to install an after market exhaust or intake, they should count on buying a fuel nanny also. In the case of the K&N filter, it may not increase air flow enough to need the addition of a fuel nanny, but I bet it does increase the flow enough to cause a leaner then factory condition, which can cause (not will cause) problems such as overheating and or pinging.

 

[99vengeur]

^^^ I believe this to be an accurate explanation for the problems cavcuz05 was having.

 

[joloy133]

Just get a "fuel nanny" that can monitor the exhaust gases to do what it's supposed to,....right? It must also be placed in a correct spot, past the header collection tube or before the muffler?

 

[owldaddy]

Just get a "fuel nanny" that can monitor the exhaust gases to do what it's supposed to,....right? It must also be placed in a correct spot, past the header collection tube or before the muffler?

Since I am new to the FZ6R, I can't say for sure such a system exists. But you would be right in assuming that with an O2 sensor in the right place it should work. That is assuming the fuel map it is trying to compensate for is set up good. As I said earlier, my BMW had issues right from the factory, that fuel map was set so lean that the O2 sensor always tried to keep the mixture very lean, that was it's job. If you looked at the FI system on automobiles, they have half a dozen sensors doing all kinds of checks, the computer takes all that info and makes the adjustments necessary. Motorcycles are not as sophisticated I believe. However with a fuel nanny that is adjustable, you can set it up to work with your engine. It may not be as sophisticated as a system with all those sensors, but they do work well. It isn't that hard to set them up either, you can feel the changes you make easily. Flat spots are easy to detect by the seat of the pants. If it is backfiring chances are it is to lean. However, an over rich condition can cause the same thing. It can be hazardous to your engine to run to lean, an over rich mixture is less likely to cause damage, but it can use more fuel, dirty up the plugs and pistons, and if enough carbon builds up on the top of the piston or in the combustion chamber, it can cause preignition, which sounds like detonation (pinging), but is caused by hot glowing carbon in the combustion chamber. Not lean conditions. Running lean can really be a bad thing, I would never make an exhaust mod like the TBR system without getting a fuel nanny. Pistons don't work well if they have a hole melted in the top.

 

[MikeN02]

My Juice Box comes in wednesday... I don't know when my Pipe comes in though but... I hope it gets here soon!

 

[rjsantana20]

I hope you post pics up. I am really itching to change the exhaust but since I am not mechanical, I am not sure of the detail. I can figure out the main pieces (headers) but not sure about the Juice box, power commander, O2 senser, now fuel nanny.

I appreciate learning about the mechanics of the bike can see where a novice, like myself, can get overwhelmed and lay down a grand for the full exhaust system.

 

[joloy133]

"Fuel Nanny" is an expression for the PCV, Juicebox, the brain boxes that monitor and adjusts your fuel/air mixture. The O2 sensor is how the boxes read the exhaust to do the job. Some bikes have this sensor from the factory, ours don't. The values that are set up from companies of the "brain boxes" either have an O2 sensor you have to install or do their maps in house based on R/D.

 

[rjsantana20]

Ok, got it. So here I was thinking that the JB, PCV and juice nanny were 3 separate things I needed to get when its all the same and I just need 1. Makes sense.

I found an 99-02 YAMAHA R6 EXHAUST HEADERS YZFR6 on ebay. I can start from there and then get the JB and a slip-on. The slip-on has to be a smaller form because of the design. If this is all right then, OMG, I am learning. It's so fun to learn!

 

[owldaddy]

"Fuel Nanny" is an expression for the PCV, Juicebox, the brain boxes that monitor and adjusts your fuel/air mixture. The O2 sensor is how the boxes read the exhaust to do the job. Some bikes have this sensor from the factory, ours don't. The values that are set up from companies of the "brain boxes" either have an O2 sensor you have to install or do their maps in house based on R/D.

10-4
Good to know that we don't have an O2 sensor. Which means the FI will certainly run the engine lean if ANY modifications are made to the air flowing through the engine since the fuel map is locked in. If you do a modification such as the TBR pipes, you WILL run lean (unless it doesn't increase air flow), which could damage the engine (I have seen holed pistons, it isn't pretty). Unless your buying the TBR pipes just because you like the sound, and don't use a fuel nanny, you take your chances. If you buy the pipes because your looking for more power, you won't get it unless you use a fuel nanny. In fact you may have less power when all is said and done. I am a mechanic, my knowledge isn't confined to just the Yamaha, therefore the info I provide is generic in nature. I can't say for sure that the pipe will cause a condition so lean that holed pistons will happen, I can say without doubt that if you don't use a fuel nanny, you will not get an increase in power, and will most likely end up with less. On my bike I intend to keep it stock, Yamaha spend a lot of time and money designing their system to get the best power, while still meeting noise and EPA restrictions. I'm not looking for more power, if I were I would have bought another bike.

 

[blackie65]

Owldaddy you make a lot of sense. I feel the same about the power and performance of this bike. I have had the bigger faster bikes and I have found I like this size. If money was no issue I would consider the two bro and Juice box. But not a jury rigged set up.

 

[owldaddy]

blackie65, I am also happy with the size of this machine, when I bought it I was looking for something lighter in weight, and height. Ergonomics were a big factor. Hard to enjoy a ride if your back is killing you. Since I am a street rider, I was looking for an engine that was designed for the street. So many 600cc bikes these days have a lot more power on top, a lot less torque in the middle. They can be exciting machines to say the least. IMO they make less enjoyable street machines though. Take them to the track where they shine. Since my other bike is a BMW 1150 twin, I guess you can figure I like torque down where you need it for street use. I'm not against modifying motorcycles, in fact I have about $4k in mods on my BMW. I plan to do several mods to this bike as well. I just am not in a hurry to modify the engine, and if I did, I would do it right. Tomorrow I'm going to order a pair of Gold Valves for the forks. Today I got rid of that fugly rear fender. Last week I put on a center stand, all these things make for a better street bike (except the fender eliminator, sorry I couldn't look at that fender another day) Modifying motorcycles can be a blast if done right. If done wrong it can be hazardous to the health of your machine.

 

[MikeN02]

I hope you post pics up. I am really itching to change the exhaust but since I am not mechanical, I am not sure of the detail. I can figure out the main pieces (headers) but not sure about the Juice box, power commander, O2 senser, now fuel nanny.

I appreciate learning about the mechanics of the bike can see where a novice, like myself, can get overwhelmed and lay down a grand for the full exhaust system.

I'm the same as you, I'm not mechanical or technical etc. but I do spend hours and hours of research and I learn stuff a lot from just browsing the internet etc. Headers is the 4 pipes that connect to the bike, the midpipe is the middle of the pipe and the exhaust/muffler is the end.

Reason why I selected a Juice Box is because there is one built for our bike and it's just plug and play. You don't have to spend another two hundred or so and get a dyno run when you've already spent $300 on a Power Commander.

I wouldn't try this method yet as everyone whose done the R6 header way uses the Power Commander and I may be the first to use it with a Juice Box.

"Fuel Nanny" is an expression for the PCV, Juicebox, the brain boxes that monitor and adjusts your fuel/air mixture. The O2 sensor is how the boxes read the exhaust to do the job. Some bikes have this sensor from the factory, ours don't. The values that are set up from companies of the "brain boxes" either have an O2 sensor you have to install or do their maps in house based on R/D.

To be honest though the Two Brothers Juice Box only modifies the fuel, and you can only add fuel. Basically in the exhaust there's Air (o2) and fuel that combine to ignite or something along those lines. If you have too much air then you need more fuel to compensate which is called running lean. If theres too much fuel then it's running rich.

PCV is Power Commander V (5 in roman numeral) is another popular device. There isn't a "map" (a fuel outline of how much fuel goes in with air ratio to ignite) for our bike so you're going to have to take it to a dyno place and have them create one for you.

 

[MikeN02]

So I installed it today but I'm still getting popping on deceleration... I turned the Juice box on all modes all the way and I'm still getting it.

Any help?

 

[joloy133]

Do a search for the airbox mod that addresses this. Go seek 99 if you can't find it......he may have done it.

 

[99vengeur]

So I installed it today but I'm still getting popping on deceleration... I turned the Juice box on all modes all the way and I'm still getting it.

Any help?

Yeah, the fact that you are still getting popping has nothing to do with your setup. After my TBR and JB install, I still had it as well. What you need to do is the AIS blockoff. There are a couple ways to do it. Here are links for each methods description. I did the first method and it removed almost all the pops. I still get a few now and then under really hard deceleration from full throttle.

http://www.600cc.org/forum/f91/removing-pops-after-installing-new-exhaust-system-17803/
http://www.600cc.org/forum/f91/howto-install-graves-ais-blockoffs-18684/

 

[MikeN02]

Yeah, the fact that you are still getting popping has nothing to do with your setup. After my TBR and JB install, I still had it as well. What you need to do is the AIS blockoff. There are a couple ways to do it. Here are links for each methods description. I did the first method and it removed almost all the pops. I still get a few now and then under really hard deceleration from full throttle.

http://www.600cc.org/forum/f91/removing-pops-after-installing-new-exhaust-system-17803/
http://www.600cc.org/forum/f91/howto-install-graves-ais-blockoffs-18684/

I'm going to have to try this, I thought I did something wrong as it keep popping/little pops when I decelerate from 0 mph from 2500 to 5,000.

 

[MikeN02]

Pros: It sounds Great!

Cons: it's too long! I'm using a Yoshimura RS3... I haven't found a correct way to mount it yet..

 

[99vengeur]

Pros: It sounds Great!

Cons: it's too long! I'm using a Yoshimura RS3... I haven't found a correct way to mount it yet..

:needpics:

 

[cavcuz05]

after i got the dyno tune everything runs great...no more fire balls...i used a PCV...however...i here a fluttering when im in lower rpm's it goes away around 6K i think...might be a leak where the header mounts?