I agree about using the outside leg to shift weight, but the instructors at the track days were saying to weight the inside peg? I tried weighting the outside peg once and I found it very difficult to do.
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- Thread starter JonKerr
- Start date
That's probably the biggest debate among riding instructors. Read Keith Code. He explains it all. To me, weighting the inside peg would make me feel like I'm going to push the bike out from under me. It's just a weird feeling. Pressing on the outside peg just helps me hold everything onto the bike.
well, I do lock my outer leg, so it's weighted against the bike. but my actual body weight is on the inside leg. If I lean too much it feels like I'm squatting. If I lean too less then it feels like a floating triangle. Do I squat or do i float? LOL Does that make sense?
I'm with you. When I'm hanging off, leaned way over with my toe slider and knee slider on the ground, I don't see how I could put any weight on my outside leg. I have no weight on my outside leg. My knee is hooked on the tank and my weight's on the inside peg.
At the FAST racing school, the pros all said they have no weight on their outside leg. I don't think much about it, but I don't see how I could get my weight to the outside.
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I just found this, from Jason Woods, Superbike School Riding Coach. I think this explains it better than Keith Code did (or maybe in addition to). I think these arguments come from interpretting it differently. This makes sense to me and matches what I experience on the track, better than my understanding of Keith Code's description, but not necessarily different. I believe Jason agrees with Keith, but says it differently.
Jason Woods - The ability to get your footpeg weight setup such that it's comfortable depends on a few things, but by and large the most important reason is the ability for you to "lock on" to your motorcycle effectively.
As you've not been to the school yet I can't relate you to drills that are relevant (necessary) to get it perfect, but we'll take a stepped approach to see if you can get a little closer to achieving your aim of being comfortable.
So with that in mind, bear with me, we'll be talking about holding onto the bike, we'll talk about the bars, the legs, the tank even your butt, but it's all relevant to our end goal OK!
In the past on this forum we've spoke of the importance of being relaxed on the bars, do you find when your weight is heavy on the inside peg you might also be holding a little tight on the bars? If we can't hold onto the bike using the bars, what can we hold on with?
No doubt you've watch John Wayne at work on his horse in a good western He's plodding along on his horse, holding a thin leather strap in his hands... he isn't holding onto the horse using that leather strap, so what's he holding on with? His legs!
Can we do the same on a bike? Hell yes! But we might be making life difficult for ourselves if we try to hold on incorrectly with our legs - this is where being at a school REALLY helps, we can position you such that you can then feel the difference in being locked on, versus not.... and the difference in seating positions might be less than an inch!
Consider this, if we want to hold onto the bike using our legs in the turns, we really want the strongest muscle in our legs to be used - otherwise it'll be hard work... which muscle then... the quad's (look them up) they're the puppies to use, idea:
Try something with your bike on stands in the garage, get yourself jammed up against the tank and hang your butt far far off the seat, do you feel stable? imagine hitting bumps? Notice you can't let go of the bars without considerable abs, diaphragm and back muscle effort! Not good... also check out how far you can comfortably get your inside knee out, not much! Note how the further off the seat you get, the more you twist away from the turn (in towards the bike).... so where's that leave the heavier half of you? Over the tank - which negates all the weight you've attempted to put low and to the inside of the turn.
Added up you can be putting bar inputs in and tensing so many muscles that should be relaxed, using more lean than necessary and potentially going slower due to lean and not feeling stable on the bike! Not good.
Now instead of hanging a full butt cheek off just move somewhere between one to three inches to the side when setting up for the corner... basically very little, see if this lets your outside knee (from the knee to halfway towards the groin) come in contact with the tank more as this is where you will be holding on best (the stronger Quad muscles). If all your contact is close to the groin (abductors) then you wont be able to maintain that pressure for long, best to use the quads which are far more powerful.
Picture that your outside knee can be rivetted into the tank...to get to that position most people need to move a little back in the seat, not so close to the tank, this is where it's important to refine this with a coach in person, as everyone is an individual ("no I'm not!"), now in that position further back from the tank, is it easier to get the upper body lower? can you easily get your knee way further out than before? Does this position give you more room for your arms and potentially for some... the beer gut? Do you feel more stable should you hit bumps? How about how much lighter you can relax on the bars? easier there? Can you last longer at trackdays doing this? with a more stable bike and less lean or more speed with your knee down earlier (big goal for some)? Most importantly or you, how is your footpeg weight? A bit better?
Anyway, this is a really difficult thing to get right via text... best to get this right with a CSS coach on the day, but give yourself a treat and try it out in the garage, you might well be surprised. Most things that help make us go faster are simple changes, which just doesn't seem right considering if they're simple changes then we must be stupid for not knowing to do that before???? i.e. we want things to be harder than they really are.. crazy huh.
Jason Woods - The ability to get your footpeg weight setup such that it's comfortable depends on a few things, but by and large the most important reason is the ability for you to "lock on" to your motorcycle effectively.
As you've not been to the school yet I can't relate you to drills that are relevant (necessary) to get it perfect, but we'll take a stepped approach to see if you can get a little closer to achieving your aim of being comfortable.
So with that in mind, bear with me, we'll be talking about holding onto the bike, we'll talk about the bars, the legs, the tank even your butt, but it's all relevant to our end goal OK!
In the past on this forum we've spoke of the importance of being relaxed on the bars, do you find when your weight is heavy on the inside peg you might also be holding a little tight on the bars? If we can't hold onto the bike using the bars, what can we hold on with?
No doubt you've watch John Wayne at work on his horse in a good western He's plodding along on his horse, holding a thin leather strap in his hands... he isn't holding onto the horse using that leather strap, so what's he holding on with? His legs!
Can we do the same on a bike? Hell yes! But we might be making life difficult for ourselves if we try to hold on incorrectly with our legs - this is where being at a school REALLY helps, we can position you such that you can then feel the difference in being locked on, versus not.... and the difference in seating positions might be less than an inch!
Consider this, if we want to hold onto the bike using our legs in the turns, we really want the strongest muscle in our legs to be used - otherwise it'll be hard work... which muscle then... the quad's (look them up) they're the puppies to use, idea:
Try something with your bike on stands in the garage, get yourself jammed up against the tank and hang your butt far far off the seat, do you feel stable? imagine hitting bumps? Notice you can't let go of the bars without considerable abs, diaphragm and back muscle effort! Not good... also check out how far you can comfortably get your inside knee out, not much! Note how the further off the seat you get, the more you twist away from the turn (in towards the bike).... so where's that leave the heavier half of you? Over the tank - which negates all the weight you've attempted to put low and to the inside of the turn.
Added up you can be putting bar inputs in and tensing so many muscles that should be relaxed, using more lean than necessary and potentially going slower due to lean and not feeling stable on the bike! Not good.
Now instead of hanging a full butt cheek off just move somewhere between one to three inches to the side when setting up for the corner... basically very little, see if this lets your outside knee (from the knee to halfway towards the groin) come in contact with the tank more as this is where you will be holding on best (the stronger Quad muscles). If all your contact is close to the groin (abductors) then you wont be able to maintain that pressure for long, best to use the quads which are far more powerful.
Picture that your outside knee can be rivetted into the tank...to get to that position most people need to move a little back in the seat, not so close to the tank, this is where it's important to refine this with a coach in person, as everyone is an individual ("no I'm not!"), now in that position further back from the tank, is it easier to get the upper body lower? can you easily get your knee way further out than before? Does this position give you more room for your arms and potentially for some... the beer gut? Do you feel more stable should you hit bumps? How about how much lighter you can relax on the bars? easier there? Can you last longer at trackdays doing this? with a more stable bike and less lean or more speed with your knee down earlier (big goal for some)? Most importantly or you, how is your footpeg weight? A bit better?
Anyway, this is a really difficult thing to get right via text... best to get this right with a CSS coach on the day, but give yourself a treat and try it out in the garage, you might well be surprised. Most things that help make us go faster are simple changes, which just doesn't seem right considering if they're simple changes then we must be stupid for not knowing to do that before???? i.e. we want things to be harder than they really are.. crazy huh.
bobby bo bonsin
New Member
Looks great! I love those white red and gold versions!
Yeah i am very happy with the look of my bike once i get rid of the stock exhaust the sex appeal will be much better
headers will be here tomorrow and i will hear my little super sport roar like the beast commuter she is.Sweeet! I've been wanting to take a picture like that for a long time. I've never found anywhere where that sign was, that I could pull over and take the pic. Well done!
(Gauley Mountain, WV)
Just after I hit my tire break in mark, Shredded the fuck out of them LOL
I'm not really sure what you mean, but try this: Pick any tight curve. It doesn't matter how tight it is, beyond the fact that you've got to lean.
Don't move your butt. Just lean forward and down, on the inside. As always, keep your weight off the bars. With the balls of your feet on the pegs, push down on the outside, as you lean through the turn...
That little experiment showed me rather dramatically, what a difference in cornering it made, weighting the outside peg.
I don't run track. I don't race. I do like to go fast in the twisties.
^ yes. I've been practicing, so nowadays I feel like I can take any corner with or without hanging off. When I don't hang off, I'm doing what u said, and yah that feels natural.
Hanging off however requires a slightly different technique tho, cuz you extend your body off the bike. And I guess what I'm saying is that Ive noticed that theres 2 degrees to hanging off. And
I'm not sure which one is more correct.
One way is to really keep my body low, "drop" the knee, and shift the inside half of my body off to the point where it's almost like I'm doing half a squat off the inside of the bike...
The other way is just keeping a relatively low body position, extending the inside knee, and just "floating" through the turn. My body weight is on the inside but it doesn't feel like I'm squatting, but more like an extended lean.
Does that make more sense? Thanks for everyone's help btw.
Hanging off however requires a slightly different technique tho, cuz you extend your body off the bike. And I guess what I'm saying is that Ive noticed that theres 2 degrees to hanging off. And
I'm not sure which one is more correct.
One way is to really keep my body low, "drop" the knee, and shift the inside half of my body off to the point where it's almost like I'm doing half a squat off the inside of the bike...
The other way is just keeping a relatively low body position, extending the inside knee, and just "floating" through the turn. My body weight is on the inside but it doesn't feel like I'm squatting, but more like an extended lean.
Does that make more sense? Thanks for everyone's help btw.
bobby bo bonsin
New Member
Sweet pics and bikes man! They look great! Thats a clean old honda. Very nice!
Hello my real name is Adam.
We're hijacking the Picture Thread. Let's take it to the Riding Technique thread. Repost, and I and hopefully JK will reply. Cheers.^ yes. I've been practicing, so nowadays I feel like I can take any corner with or without hanging off. When I don't hang off, I'm doing what u said, and yah that feels natural.
Hanging off however requires a slightly different technique tho, cuz you extend your body off the bike. And I guess what I'm saying is that Ive noticed that theres 2 degrees to hanging off. And
I'm not sure which one is more correct.
One way is to really keep my body low, "drop" the knee, and shift the inside half of my body off to the point where it's almost like I'm doing half a squat off the inside of the bike...
The other way is just keeping a relatively low body position, extending the inside knee, and just "floating" through the turn. My body weight is on the inside but it doesn't feel like I'm squatting, but more like an extended lean.
Does that make more sense? Thanks for everyone's help btw.
Both bikes are beautiful! Seriously digging the '84. I've a soft spot for older bikes. What's the "SC" designation?
On a side-note, the photo looks seriously 'shopped. Not saying that is, just saying, LOL.
The Nighthawk S was available from '84-'86 and featured a bikini fairing on the front, as well as a 16" front wheel, to reflect the race bikes of the day.
The styling, to me, is iconic on the Honda. Also, the sounds it makes far and away exceed those of the FZ. Such a full, throaty, exhaust note. The NH draws attention wherever it goes, from both cruiser guys and sportbike guys.
Brian
PS, one photo does have a significant amount of work done to it. The other is more natural.
