ahaha! :thumbup:
Have u taken the MSF Basic Rider course
- Thread starter b_who
- Start date
:rof: :rof: :Im With Stupid: ha ha ha
In Pennsylvania the course is free after you pay $10 to take a very basic written test to get your learner's permit. Here there's really no reason not to do it. I took it a month ago or so and thought it was great. I had never ridden a motorcycle prior, so the extremely basic start of the course (friction zone, power walking in first gear, working up from there) was perfect. Also, no pressure or worries about dropping a $5k-7k bike.
Having said all that, if I had to pay a couple hundred bucks for the course, I'd still definitely do it and recommend anyone else do the same.
Having said all that, if I had to pay a couple hundred bucks for the course, I'd still definitely do it and recommend anyone else do the same.
All the bikes in the MSF course I took looked really sad... Turning signals dented up. No mirrors. Dented tanks. Dings & scratched everywhere. LOL Ironically, I never dropped any of those bikes. But my 6R is a different story... lol. I think it's the difference in weight- ie 600cc vs 150cc & 250cc... =/
The ones we had did have some turn signal damage on some of them but they were newer and running good.No tank dents and stuff. Both the Ninja 350's had some fairing rash but not much. I really can't remember mirrors even on any of the bikes....I must be getting senile..drat!
I learned last summer on a Suzuki Marauder. Low weight. Low centre of gravity. I did drop it once, on the initial parking lot training LOL. I even told the instructor I planned to drop his bike, cuz I never want to drop mine.
I took mine and agree that it's a brilliant learning tool for those who actually learn the techniques taught. I always recommend people go take the class because it's their best chance to learn. The only problem I have with it is it's TOO easy to pass and get your license. My aunt and I took the class together. She was terrible! She put her foot down 4 times in the U-Turn box, blew past the emergency braking limit, basically got marked down on everything you could and missed the most points possible and she still passed. She was so bad that she dropped her Harley 883 Low sportster 4 times after the class. She was so terrified of leaning the bike that my uncle basically cut the back off the bike and turned it into a trike for her. 
And they passed her and said she was good enough to get her license. :eyebrow: That was kind of scary to me. It's no wonder there are so many bad riders out there. Teaching good technique doesn't do anything if you're going to pass people who didn't learn the good techniques you're trying to teach.
And they passed her and said she was good enough to get her license. :eyebrow: That was kind of scary to me. It's no wonder there are so many bad riders out there. Teaching good technique doesn't do anything if you're going to pass people who didn't learn the good techniques you're trying to teach.There were many similar stories in the group of riders I took my MSF course with. 2 ladies in particular... 1 was bad, foot down here, dropped bike there, 900 feet to stop... similar to what you said.. and the other was just horrible. she failed her riding test in the morning session, so they let her take it in the afternoon session. She put her foot down countless times, and did everything wrong EXCEPT drop the bike and they passed her. It;s definitely scary to think that you can obtain a license that easily.I took mine and agree that it's a brilliant learning tool for those who actually learn the techniques taught. I always recommend people go take the class because it's their best chance to learn. The only problem I have with it is it's TOO easy to pass and get your license. My aunt and I took the class together. She was terrible! She put her foot down 4 times in the U-Turn box, blew past the emergency braking limit, basically got marked down on everything you could and missed the most points possible and she still passed. She was so bad that she dropped her Harley 883 Low sportster 4 times after the class. She was so terrified of leaning the bike that my uncle basically cut the back off the bike and turned it into a trike for her.
I tell anyone who tells me they are interested in getting a motorcycle that they MUST take the MSF course. I swear that things I learned, now 10 years ago, save my life every time I ride. I'm taking the ERC this Spring for sure.
Sorry to hear that some instructors let people who seemed clearly dangerous to themselves, and therefore the rest of us on the road, pass the course. When I took it two people failed. One guy was too big for the little 250s, he had incredibly long legs that just jutted out from the bikes. The instructors recommended that he try to take the ERC on his already purchased Hog. The other guy was just bad, making an error in just about every category possible. They recommended that he take the class again and try to practice in empty parking lots as much as possible.
Sorry to hear that some instructors let people who seemed clearly dangerous to themselves, and therefore the rest of us on the road, pass the course. When I took it two people failed. One guy was too big for the little 250s, he had incredibly long legs that just jutted out from the bikes. The instructors recommended that he try to take the ERC on his already purchased Hog. The other guy was just bad, making an error in just about every category possible. They recommended that he take the class again and try to practice in empty parking lots as much as possible.
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Let me start with, I'd also recommend the course to anyone as well...
but... @ $150 something... and one and a half days of actual riding, I really don't expect anyone to get it right the first time... I really struggled with the figure 8, and I was the only one on a ninja 250 in my class, but I nailed it when tested. Only thing I lost a couple points for was going too slow thru the curve, nailed everything else... but still considered it by pure luck, so I practiced, took it easy and road with a buddy (and still managed to "drop" the bike after a couple days) as often as possible. Starting in very heavy traffic, but mostly straights, and gradually getting into twisty roads.
I can understand why they pass people, it's a grade/point system... the only instant fail is dropping the bike or stunting it... who cares if someone puts a foot down? I'd rather see someone do that than dump their bike. I could see if it was a one week class, with actual road time after a couple of days of riding training, then they'd flat out fail someone and tell them to come back in a year... but, I think people should have the right to get a license and learn on their own... experience can't be taught!
This is right along the oz discussions... I'd hate to have the government tell me I had to follow their plan for hp/weight for so many years... people should be allowed to learn on their own, at their own pace....
sorry for the :rant: and I'll finish with: I'd also recommend the course to anyone as well...
but... @ $150 something... and one and a half days of actual riding, I really don't expect anyone to get it right the first time... I really struggled with the figure 8, and I was the only one on a ninja 250 in my class, but I nailed it when tested. Only thing I lost a couple points for was going too slow thru the curve, nailed everything else... but still considered it by pure luck, so I practiced, took it easy and road with a buddy (and still managed to "drop" the bike after a couple days) as often as possible. Starting in very heavy traffic, but mostly straights, and gradually getting into twisty roads.
I can understand why they pass people, it's a grade/point system... the only instant fail is dropping the bike or stunting it... who cares if someone puts a foot down? I'd rather see someone do that than dump their bike. I could see if it was a one week class, with actual road time after a couple of days of riding training, then they'd flat out fail someone and tell them to come back in a year... but, I think people should have the right to get a license and learn on their own... experience can't be taught!
This is right along the oz discussions... I'd hate to have the government tell me I had to follow their plan for hp/weight for so many years... people should be allowed to learn on their own, at their own pace....
sorry for the :rant: and I'll finish with: I'd also recommend the course to anyone as well...
Like I said, the class is great and teaches you a lot and I always tell people to take it. But you didn't see my aunt. I'm serious, she was scary. It's not that she put A foot down. She put Both feet down multiple times in the figure 8, basically walking the bike around the turns, and still went outside the box! She almost killed the instructor in the swerve test when she locked up and basically went straight and almost hit him. She blew probably 50-60 feet past the ideal braking point in the emergency stop. And not only did she take almost twice the allotted time in the curve test, she set a foot down because she was going so slow! I mean it was embarrassing. And she actually got worse through out the class. When they would tell her to look through the turn she would just move her eyes and keep her head straight ahead. There was another guy in the class that was almost as bad and he passed too. I'm all for taking the easy way to get your license because I know the DMV test is pretty crazy. But when someone gets worse over the course of 2 days and they still pass them, that's just wrong IMO. Maybe the instructors I had were just way more lenient than most. But I've been a part of a lot of beginner rides and free riding clinics and I've seen a number of riders come out on full blown supersports (some on very expensive ones, one guy who got his license a week prior and was on a Ducati 1098 ) who should not have had a license yet. They were dangerous to themselves and everyone around them. And not because they were trying to be fast or riding like morons. They didn't have enough skill to ride like a moron. :rant:
There was another guy in the class that was almost as bad and he passed too. I'm all for taking the easy way to get your license because I know the DMV test is pretty crazy. But when someone gets worse over the course of 2 days and they still pass them, that's just wrong IMO. Maybe the instructors I had were just way more lenient than most. But I've been a part of a lot of beginner rides and free riding clinics and I've seen a number of riders come out on full blown supersports (some on very expensive ones, one guy who got his license a week prior and was on a Ducati 1098 ) who should not have had a license yet. They were dangerous to themselves and everyone around them. And not because they were trying to be fast or riding like morons. They didn't have enough skill to ride like a moron. :rant:
W
whatever
yes
twice for motorcycles and once for atv.
twice for motorcycles and once for atv.
Y
yellowfz
Safety Course , would love to do the refresher course , but when I started it was , written test , riding test (Trooper following in car , honking horn for turns , 1 right , 2 left ) and off you go . But I had been racing MX for 2 years so the street was just a longer course , .
Refreshing the wife right now before she takes the course in a couple of weeks , we have a old DT175 (1977) Yamaha that still runs good , so she is practicing stopping , starting , shifting , she use to go to a Motorcycle Park and ride with me so she has a up on others .
For most of life in the early teens motorcycles were my life blood , lived and breathed motorcycle ( I don't want to die , I just want to ride my motor-cy , I don't want a pickle , I just want to ride my motorcycle) .
. Refreshing the wife right now before she takes the course in a couple of weeks , we have a old DT175 (1977) Yamaha that still runs good , so she is practicing stopping , starting , shifting , she use to go to a Motorcycle Park and ride with me so she has a up on others .
For most of life in the early teens motorcycles were my life blood , lived and breathed motorcycle ( I don't want to die , I just want to ride my motor-cy , I don't want a pickle , I just want to ride my motorcycle) .
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redwing-2001
New Member
I have been teaching the MSF curriculum for nearly 5 years (BRC, ERC-now BRC2 and the newer ARC - Advanced). Last weekend was my 111th class.
Thank you all for the kind reviews.
What most people miss (critics mostly) is that the BRC is a basic class. It is not intended to make someone an expert rider in 2 days. What it is for is to show how to practice properly. What the student does with that knowledge is up to them. If a person successfully completes the class are they better equipped to ride their motorcycle then before they started? By far, the answer is usually most definatly yes. Exceptions, sure (read about Jon Kerr's aunt). I wasn't there-don't know the specifics. But I can tell you that the training does far more good than not.
Of course, I am preaching to the choir - a big reason why I like this forum.
Anyone interested in organizing an MSF Advanced RiderCourse in Atlanta area - need 6 to make a class and I will arrange it
Thank you all for the kind reviews.
What most people miss (critics mostly) is that the BRC is a basic class. It is not intended to make someone an expert rider in 2 days. What it is for is to show how to practice properly. What the student does with that knowledge is up to them. If a person successfully completes the class are they better equipped to ride their motorcycle then before they started? By far, the answer is usually most definatly yes. Exceptions, sure (read about Jon Kerr's aunt). I wasn't there-don't know the specifics. But I can tell you that the training does far more good than not.
Of course, I am preaching to the choir - a big reason why I like this forum.
Anyone interested in organizing an MSF Advanced RiderCourse in Atlanta area - need 6 to make a class and I will arrange it
When I took the one in Illinois 2 years ago, it was 20 bucks (i think) for a 2.5 day course on a weekend. It taught me and another buddy of mine so much that we told any of our friends that were thinking about getting a license to take the course.
It was definitely worth donating the 20 bucks (the money was to reserve the spot and if you didnt show up the money was theirs and you could choose to donate it or get it back if you completed the course)
and another reason for me to say take this course in illinois was because it was easier than taking the dmv tests and more entertaining haha..
It was definitely worth donating the 20 bucks (the money was to reserve the spot and if you didnt show up the money was theirs and you could choose to donate it or get it back if you completed the course)
and another reason for me to say take this course in illinois was because it was easier than taking the dmv tests
and more entertaining haha..Since you're an instructor I'll ask you. What are the requirements to become an instructor? One of the guys we had seemed fine. But the other seemed like he was just reading off the little card and didn't really have much else. I know he rode because they both rode to the class. But he just never really offered anything beyond what was written down. If anyone had a question it was the other guy answering. He was always the one to explain the drill and the other guy always actually demo'd it. We never saw him actually do any of the drills he was trying to teach us how to do.I have been teaching the MSF curriculum for nearly 5 years (BRC, ERC-now BRC2 and the newer ARC - Advanced). Last weekend was my 111th class.
Thank you all for the kind reviews.
What most people miss (critics mostly) is that the BRC is a basic class. It is not intended to make someone an expert rider in 2 days. What it is for is to show how to practice properly. What the student does with that knowledge is up to them. If a person successfully completes the class are they better equipped to ride their motorcycle then before they started? By far, the answer is usually most definatly yes. Exceptions, sure (read about Jon Kerr's aunt). I wasn't there-don't know the specifics. But I can tell you that the training does far more good than not.
Of course, I am preaching to the choir - a big reason why I like this forum.
Anyone interested in organizing an MSF Advanced RiderCourse in Atlanta area - need 6 to make a class and I will arrange it
Also, do they have some leeway on their scoring? Like you read, they were very lenient with the scores in my class with pretty much everyone, not just my aunt. Even with me. The one thing I know I did wrong was my front tire just touched the line on the figure 8. But they still gave me 0 points.
Again- It might seem like I'm bitching about the class. And I really don't want it to seem like that. I really did learn a lot in the class and I think the content of it is great. I always recommend people take the class and take everything they can from it.
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redwing-2001
New Member
wow, sounds like an interesting class. I wasn't there and don't really know for sure what exactly went on but it sounds like you had somewhat of a new guy being mentored by an experienced guy. Just a guess, again I wasn't there.
A lot of people always talk about the "Figure 8" in the Skills Test (actually it is 2 "consecutive u-turns, one in each direction". Technically not a figure 8 ;-) ). Actually I wish MSF would take it out of the testing. In my opinion it is the least important of the four skills tested and too much emphasis is placed on it by the students. It is also the lowest amount of possible point deduction. The other three (swerve, quick stop and negotiating a curve) will save your life some day if you master and use the proper techniques. Slow speed maneuvers take a lot of skill and a lot of practice. I am not saying this should not be in the curriculum and practiced later on, it should, but the emphasis in the basic class should be swerving, braking and cornering - how to practice properly and less emphasis on slow speed u-turns..
To answer your specific questions:
- to become a RiderCoach and License Examiner is a little different in each state. Most states use the MSF curriculum and certified MSF RiderCoaches (MSF btw is headquartered in California). To become a RiderCoach, you have to go through some pretty extensive training. In Georgia, I went through 3 full weekends (7-1/2 days) and countless hours of independent study and testing to get certified. Then about 9 months of internship before becoming certified as a third party license examiner in Georgia.
- In the u-turn box, and the swerve and curve for that matter, we score it, in Georgia, that points will be taken off when any portion of the tire is completely off the line. Kind of like baseball, if you are right on the line and chalk flying (so to speak) you are good.
- Really, there is not supposed to be any leeway in scoring. Before each Skill Eval, one of the RiderCoaches reads what is scored and what things that points will be taken off for. However, we are talking about small spaces, stopwatch reaction times, experience and so forth. If the total amount of points assessed is over the maximum allowed grand total, the student is unsuccessful. Also, totally blowing one of the 4 Skill Evals is not enough to be unsuccessful. Again, I was not there and don’t know for sure, but one of the many good things about the Basic RiderCourse is that it really illustrates what the student needs to work on after class. Practice, Practice, Practice.
- The cards you are referring to are the Range Cards. This is an invaluable tool that keeps us on track and makes sure we cover everything. Again, I wasn’t there and don't really know what went on, but sometimes a RiderCoach is better off shutting up and letting the student experience, even struggle a bit, with a particular skill or exercise and let them figure it out on their own in a controlled environment of course. Less (talking in particular) is more in a lot of situations. Lots of adult learning principles going on.
There is usually a lot going on behind the scenes that the students don’t notice. Each class is different because of all the individuals involved and each class therefore takes on it’s own individual identity. One of the things that I stress in the very beginning (right out of the book actually) is that each student should focus on their own learning. The reason MSF brings this up us because each person is unique and comes in to the class with a different set of skills, background, learning style, etc and therefore learns differently. Our goal is to have each student knowing more about how to ride a motorcycle safely than when they first started. Also, I like having 2 RiderCoaches facilitating because chances are good that each student will relate and ultimately learn from at least one of the RiderCoaches.
After the course is over and you pass, all you get is a waiver (no further testing necessary) to go get your motorcycle license. All a motorcycle license is good for is for you to practice legally on the street.
How is your aunt doing – regarding motorcycle riding, of course?