retune the de tuned

[cbzdel]

FZ1inNH you had a FZ6 correct? I think I remember you from the old forum and a thread about upgrading to the FZ1, and your name used to be FZ6inNH.. Correct??

If true can you shine some light on us from the FZ6 world, there were plenty of mods, what % of increase did they expect?? Not the same engine but just to get an idea..

 

[Craxican]

no they wanted an entry level bike...if they wanted the fz6r to be a r6...it would be an r6...i said it can be done...my mechanic says it can be done...the dyno tune can be off sure...but then again...maybe it's not...and once again...if you take something thats been dumbed down...every increase has a greater potential of adding that much more because it is dumbed down...like i said a v6 running at max potential will not get as much boost out of mods as a v6 that is not maxed out...because there is more to play with...and yes different dynos can and will produce different results...but that much of a difference is insane...if that were the case...races would be so outmatched because one person could get a dyno to read lower when they were running much higher, thus giving an unfair advantage...i understand that the numbers don't make sense to some of you...and i understand why many would be skeptic or ignore the statements...but i have seen a ford fiesta out run a corvette...i have seen a 240sx burn a gsxr 600...i have seen a gsxr 600 go 180 with just a new exhaust...i have seen an r6 go 180 with just a pcIII....i have seen a CBR600RR with no mods just fine tuning of the engine out run a stock busa...so say what you will...go out and talk to whomever you choose...supposedly our bikes don't go past 120...but mine has...supposedly our bikes are not stunt bikes...but someone has...someone said show the dyno...i showed a dyno and that wasn't good enough...now we want every dyno so we can take an average...no matter what i say or do...those who have made up their mind will never believe me...those who haven't might try...others may not care...in any case...nay sayers are usually spectators...if no one ever tried anything new...nothing new would ever happen and we would still be stuck with 600cc bikes that couldn't break 200mph...have fun with this discussion...i'm moving to a new one...i agree to disagree

 

[cbzdel]

I have hit over 120 with my all stock bike, I think I have seem like 128 IIRC, I was racing an FZ6, which killed me by the way, I pulled ahead due to our lower power band but once he hit his power band he was GONE!!

this thread can go on forever, IMO I think we should just let it die down because we can argue forever :wav:

(unless everyone else wants to continue arguing, then I will continue because its somewhat fun to put my thinker hat on )

 

[llervero]

I'm quite sure that you cannot add that many HP with those two mods... Based on that theory, the same two mods would put the FZ6 from 98 to 115 hp and the FZ1 to 154 hp. :surrender:

Is no a theory is a sugestion. Those engines are not as detuned as the FZ6R engine. In other wordswe will be catching up to you guys. Engine internals, cams, intakes etc. all part of the final product.

 

[99vengeur]

Crax -- It's not that we are a bunch of nay-sayers. It is that we have yet to be shown any substantial data. Sure, you showed us a dyno chart that had a max readout of 87 hp. Fine and dandy, but what were the ACTUAL stock numbers before any mods were completed?? You can't simply base it off of published numbers. There are too many variables involved to rely on the published stock hp numbers.

Here is a quote from another forum that should attest to the variability in a dyno.

Don't feel bad or let them bother you. The 25th of last Sept. a buddy and I went to a Harley shop dyno drags contest put on by Hot Bike Magazine. My VFR and his Speed Triple were not met with smiling faces. I know that my VFR is not fast compared to alot of bikes but I knew I could beat some Harleys. When we got there we signed up and started watching. There were full dress Road Kings that the dyno said were making 140 hp and running 10.20 in the 1/4. We were very impressed. I was actually nervous. Then my buddy ran his speed triple against a bad ass Big Dog with a huge V-twin. The dyno said the speed triple made 161 hp and ran a 9.01 1/4 and the Big Dog made 170hp and ran a 10 flat. Then we knew the truth- The dyno lies. Hell it said my VFR made 152 hp and I ran a 9.4 in the 1/4. Later they had a bone stock Hayabusa that the dyno said made around 220hp and ran around a 8 flat. What was funny was most of the Harley guys thought it was all accurate. I wish, but it was a good experience to learn about some of the mobile dynos and dyno drags.

 

[cbzdel]

there are many people on the board that have filter/exhaust/pcv.. I would really like to see others chime in and say what their dyno results were.

the problem is we are basing everything off of ONE dyno graph.. If there was a few that said 80+ is possible then I would believe it but just based off of one dyno, I cant esp. when 2bros has a dyno for their own product that show significantly less gains, and I would trust 2bros over a random guy on a forum.

(no offense to the OP of that dyno, I am just saying 2Bros has everything on the line trying to sell a product so they would double and triple check its accurate before posting)

 

[joloy133]

Hey, I guess its me. That's my dyno graph and I was surprised also, to be honest. I plan on getting the readings re-checked as if starting from scratch to see what weather conditions and if recalibrating changes anything. There is validity to arguments of operator error. It would be great if Craxican would get a baseline now, to see his HP with the auto tuner. I'll advise on the second readings as I get them,..... but lets not forget that most of the mods to exhaust, intake, and PCV have produced better performance. I feel although important, it's not just the numbers........(the butt dyno!).

 

[cbzdel]

I never even thought of a dyno with the auto tuner, that would most definitely be interesting to see. Personally thats the route I would go because if I do another mod in the future I would not want to pay the dyno tune fee..

 

[FZ1inNH]

FZ1inNH you had a FZ6 correct? I think I remember you from the old forum and a thread about upgrading to the FZ1, and your name used to be FZ6inNH.. Correct??

If true can you shine some light on us from the FZ6 world, there were plenty of mods, what % of increase did they expect?? Not the same engine but just to get an idea..

Yes Chris... that is me.

I posted Pete's numbers in the last post I made in this thread where his gains with a pro tuning the bike were minimal with the PC and exhaust mod. The general consensus for the FZ6 has been 6-9 HP gain with anyone who installed either the PCIII or PCV and an exhaust. In the FZ1 world, it is 7 -12 HP but no one has done ONLY those two and dyno'd the bike as most do their AIS blockoff, airbox mod, subthrottle plates and stacks all in the very same mod especially since three of those mods are 100% free!

No one that I know of in both the racing and recreational aspect of motorcycling installs a Power Commander for HP gains. The Power commander is to improve performance of the fuel delivery system alone and some HP gains at certain RPMs are one of the positive effects of doing this mod. Enthusists install the PC BECAUSE of the mods they have done for HP increases because they now have a need to make sure the bike is delivering the proper amount of fuel throughout a linear progression of the RPM range.

Don't forget that all of the FZ models but the FZ6R run on closed loop to 20% throttle and 6500 rpm. Fuel map changes below these values make no difference when tuning the Power Commander.

I'm not arguing anyone's point. I'm just stating facts that are readily available in a Google Search, forum members with first-hand knowledge and locating Dyno charts online to compare numbers with others who have documented their mods with each run.

 

[toekneedee]

Don't forget that all of the FZ models run on closed loop to 20% throttle and 6500 rpm. Fuel map changes below these values make no difference when tuning the Power Commander.

I don't doubt that there are minimal gains to be had, but isn't the FZ6r an open loop system as it doesn't have an O2 sensor?
TD

 

[FZ1inNH]

I don't doubt that there are minimal gains to be had, but isn't the FZ6r an open loop system as it doesn't have an O2 sensor?
TD

You are correct. I forgot that Yamaha excluded the R model for closed loop. Thanks for pointing this out.

 

[AfDevin86]

Well I just closed my eyes real tight and wished really hard and I increase my WHP by 15. Just saying. . .I can see maybe a WHP increase of like 15 tops with exhaust/intake/tune and gearing the bike DOWN. =D hehe,

 

[fz6r rider]

Ok so after reading this entire thread and feeling a little less smart after doing so ...you all have gotten away fromt he topic at hand and that is retuning the detuned. this thread should have been moved since the 4th post. any way to answer your question about retuning, I have discussed with my tuner the possibility of adding more power to the bike, and how to make it more like the R6 he said its all in the cams. by swapping out the cams from an 03-04 R6 you will see a significant power increase. this combined with a -1 front +2 back sprocket, performance intake, performance exhaust and i good tune, your bike should be similar to a stock 03 R6 this has been confirmed by my local yamaha dealer so that is what I am going to go with. Total upgrade cost with a graves race shorty slip on will be 550...NO pc v as it is pointless in my eyes I will be progressively making these changes as money is tight but I will let everyone know of the gains When it is complete.

 

[mchury]

Ok so after reading this entire thread and feeling a little less smart after doing so ...you all have gotten away fromt he topic at hand and that is retuning the detuned. this thread should have been moved since the 4th post. any way to answer your question about retuning, I have discussed with my tuner the possibility of adding more power to the bike, and how to make it more like the R6 he said its all in the cams. by swapping out the cams from an 03-04 R6 you will see a significant power increase. this combined with a -1 front +2 back sprocket, performance intake, performance exhaust and i good tune, your bike should be similar to a stock 03 R6 this has been confirmed by my local yamaha dealer so that is what I am going to go with. Total upgrade cost with a graves race shorty slip on will be 550...NO pc v as it is pointless in my eyes I will be progressively making these changes as money is tight but I will let everyone know of the gains When it is complete.

thanks man thats all i was askin in the first place

 

[Root Down]

I took a look on ebay for 03-05 R6 cams and they are readily available in the $50 range. Is this a feasible mod? No doubt a better cam would increase the output of the engine but is it possible to be sure that it would fit without trying it?

 

[fz6r rider]

I took a look on ebay for 03-05 R6 cams and they are readily available in the $50 range. Is this a feasible mod? No doubt a better cam would increase the output of the engine but is it possible to be sure that it would fit without trying it?

I will be purchasing the cams in the coming weeks...also I purchased a full akrapovic system for just over 600....thats a top of the line exhaust forr nearly 300 less then the TBR :thumbup:

 

[99vengeur]

If you are taking this to a dyno when you are done, please try to get before and after numbers!! That way you can settle the little tiff that was going on in this thread.

BTW, keep us updated on how it works out. If the R6 cams come through and fit without issues, this will definitely be the way to go to add some more ponies! :thumbup: Also, can you verify whether you will be using R6 cams or R6S cams?

 

[AfDevin86]

If you are taking this to a dyno when you are done, please try to get before and after numbers!! That way you can settle the little tiff that was going on in this thread.

BTW, keep us updated on how it works out. If the R6 cams come through and fit without issues, this will definitely be the way to go to add some more ponies! :thumbup: Also, can you verify whether you will be using R6 cams or R6S cams?

I would say older r6 cams (before the new body style) and newer r6s cams are the same???

 

[cbzdel]

something that comes to thought about cam swap, the may look similar, but what if the lifter/push rods/valves are different it could be very catastrophic if it pushes a valve to far or not far enough. Alot of bad scenarios are coming to mind, most probably have no chance in happening but IMO alot of research needs to be done before just swapping in a random cam and expecting it to work..

but that is just my opinion...

 

[99vengeur]

To add to cbzdel's post....

What will this do to the stock ECU map? are you going to have to switch to the R6 ECU to make sure the mapping and timing is correct?