retune the de tuned

[mfischler]

joloy133 has more than 9HP gain, that with his pcV and exhaust mod...and I said that I can get more than a 30HP boost out of one mod, a turbo...not a turbo added to the mix...don't know much about fz1, but i know that this was posted

At the bottom of that dyno chart in faint print it says "stock 09 Yamaha FZ-6 with customer modified" - did they forget the "R"? An FZ6 with those numbers makes more sense.

I have all these mods and I know what my dyno chart says. And unfortunately, it's nothing like 90hp. Like I've said in other posts - it's about 10% - 6/7hp gain.

And "yes" - maybe the guy who dyno'd my bike is a moron. So I've decided to take it to a different shop to see what they can do. However, I suspect the results will be the same, but I'll let you know.

 

[99vengeur]

I think what everyone is forgetting here is that the numbers being stated are from different dyno runs, at different locations, with different conditions (atmospheric and otherwise). You cannot compare the published stock numbers and someone's numbers from their mods. You HAVE to compare the stock run and modded run at the same location, and preferably on the same day.

I know that joloy's dyno sheet says nearly 90 hp, but we don't have a stock baseline run to compare that to. That dyno could have said the stock numbers were 80-84 hp before the mods, giving an increase of 5-9 hp. We just don't know.

All I'm saying is that this debate will go nowhere unless someone produces the stock run and modded run from the same dyno for comparison.

 

[Craxican]

yes buy joloy said that his bike is an fz6r...and though the dyno should be done at the same time...yatta yatta yatta...a stock fz6r is not gonna show up as 80+ horsepower when the average is 65...let's think about this...if a bike comes with 65HP...then it has 65HP...moving the bike to different places should not give anyone THAT much of a boost...also...our engine is detuned...so when you do something to it...you can squeeze more from it...

if you have a 3.2 V6 operating at full capacity...little mods will not increase you muhc...if you have 3.2 V6 tuned down...every little mod has the potential to boost you more because you have more room to boost...

if you have two 3 gallon buckets of water...one with 2.5 gallons filled and one with 1 gallon filled and add 1 gallon of water to each...you notice a huge difference because the 1 gallon could take the full gallon while the 2.5 has over flowed and is now 3gallons...that's all you can fit...but the 1 gallon bucket is now at 2 gallons and can still fit more

i have already posted a dyno...whether you want to believe me or not is your right...but the 80+ horsepower is still a lot more than the 65 average hp...and more than a 9hp gain even if he has yamaha certified 76hp fz6r and that is still only off a pcv and a modded (not swapped) exhaust...

 

[FZ1inNH]

Here are the specs from Two Brothers racing for JUST adding their exhaust alone. Hope this helps clarify some numbers to start with. This is stock and custom exhaust on the same Dyno.

Performance Specs

Stock TBR Difference
Peak HP 68..8 hp 72.2 hp +3.8 hp

Max HP Gain - 5.3 hp @9400rpm
Max Torque Gain - 4.2 ft-lbs @5800rpm

Weight 18 lbs 8 lbs -10 lbs

Sound 86@3000 101@3000 +15 dB

As seen here... Two Brothers Racing :: Yamaha FZ-6R

 

[99vengeur]

Their dyno chart say 74.4 hp, but it still is not a 30% increase...

 

[Craxican]

add that to the dyno chart i showed and....wait for it....wait for it...you break 90HP:thumbup:....thanks for the help on that one guy...plus some people have shown a 7hp gain from it...AND the M4 has been suggested to increas HP by as much as 8%...which if tuned right...then that would put you at a modest 93.96HP...approximately 94HP

 

[99vengeur]

add that to the dyno chart i showed and....wait for it....wait for it...you break 90HP:thumbup:....thanks for the help on that one guy...plus some people have shown a 7hp gain from it...AND the M4 has been suggested to increas HP by as much as 8%...which if tuned right...then that would put you at a modest 93.96HP...approximately 94HP

So are you adding the TBR numbers to an already modded system to get the 90 hp numbers?? Because I don't think the dyno chart you posted are the stock numbers.

 

[cbzdel]

This thead makes my thinker hurt hah! what is going on?? 90+hp from the FZ6R?

If I thought about this I would say, yeah right, not unless you change the internals.. For some reason I doubt it is so detuned in just intake/exhaust and AF mixture restrictions that it will it will increase power by 40%

I think a alot of head/valve work could make it possible as well as a cam upgrade.. I think I P&P would do alot for us as well.. But I dont want to rip apart my engine to figure it out haha!

 

[FZ1inNH]

So are you adding the TBR numbers to an already modded system to get the 90 hp numbers?? Because I don't think the dyno chart you posted are the stock numbers.

IF what he says is true, the stock dyno at Two Bros is 68.8. The peak gain is 5.3 hp. That is 74.1 HP just from adding the Two Bros full exhaust.

Thus, what he is saying is by adding only the PC V and having the best tuner attack these two mods, the PC V tuned will net 19.86 HP alone.

Forget the turbo... that was WAY after his claim of these numbers....

Who's putting money on what numbers?

 

[cbzdel]

IF what he says is true, the stock dyno at Two Bros is 68.8. The peak gain is 5.3 hp. That is 74.1 HP just from adding the Two Bros full exhaust.

Thus, what he is saying is by adding only the PC V and having the best tuner attack these two mods, the PC V tuned will net 19.86 HP alone.

Forget the turbo... that was WAY after his claim of these numbers....

Who's putting money on what numbers?

TBR only claims a 3.8 hp difference.. to a 72.2 max hp.. (without PCV)

 

[99vengeur]

<---- Thinks someone's arithmetic is slightly off and should have a professional dyno tuner readjust the numbers so they add up...



This is getting to be one of the more epic threads on this forum.

 

[FZ1inNH]

TBR only claims a 3.8 hp difference.. to a 72.2 max hp.. (without PCV)

That is the sustained. If you look at the chart, you see "Max HP Gain - 5.3 hp @9400rpm" and that is the peak hp that I used but it is still a stretch to get 19+ HP out of a PC V install on a 600cc bike.

 

[cbzdel]

I read this a while back and think it can apply to this thread...

OK so the intro "The power to change" was a little silly....OK a lot silly, but accurate. It's what it does; gives you, the rider, the power and ability to change how much fuel your bike gets. Does this increase the HP? Yes and no. One of the funniest things I hear all the time is this line; "So I put a pipe and a Power Commander on my bike and it gained like 20 horsepower! I was on I-4 yesterday pulling 190mph!". The funny part of this is that it is always some 600cc sportbike owner that says it.

So let's get that out of the way first; a pipe and Power Commander is not going to gain you 20 hp. Probably not even 10hp. Maybe 5-7hp but most likely 3-5hp. Sorry to bust everyone's bubble but modern motorcycles just don't have that kind of power gains bottled-up inside them unless major work is done to some pretty expensive parts.

found at 2WF.com - Online and on the Gas - Power Commander PCIII USB

 

[FZ1inNH]

I read this a while back and think it can apply to this thread...



found at 2WF.com - Online and on the Gas - Power Commander PCIII USB

THAT'S the darned article I was searching for! Thanks! I failed miserably at Google today.... Ergggggg. Great find Chris!

 

[mfischler]

lol - I love all this discussion!!!

I will post my dyno chart tomorrow

 

[99vengeur]

Ok, so all this discussion made me go out and get an answer once and for all. The runs compare the stock setup to a run made with just a TBR exhaust added. No PCV, no air intake mods. This should settle the little dispute going on about how much HP can be extracted from our engines.

lol

 

[FZ1inNH]

Ok, so all this discussion made me go out and get an answer once and for all. The runs compare the stock setup to a run made with just a TBR exhaust added. No PCV, no air intake mods. This should settle the little dispute going on about how much HP can be extracted from our engines.

lol

Holy CRAP! I'm trading my FZ1 for the FZ6R and a 2Bros!















:rof:

 

[Craxican]

say what you will...but an 87 HP bike with just a pcv and modded NOT new exhaust is way above 9HP gain total that everyone else has suggested...so my claim that you can get more than 9HP and a possible 90+ HP is valid...I mean why is it just a stretch to pull 3 - 8 more hp out of the engine with a better exhaust...and further more...the numbers that I am adding is that if you have a 65 HP bike, get an 8% increase to put you at 70 HP...and then add a PCV which has been seen to give an increase of anywhere from 5 to 15+HP depending on your tuner...then you would have a bike somewhere around 75 to 85+ with a great dyno tuner...we have already seen a bike with a modded exhaust and a PCV hit 87...put on a better exhaust and see the number jump...agree to disagree, but my mechanic...who builds race bikes...says it's totally possible...just depends on how hard you are willing to push the engine

 

[cbzdel]

say what you will...but an 87 HP bike with just a pcv and modded NOT new exhaust is way above 9HP gain total that everyone else has suggested...so my claim that you can get more than 9HP and a possible 90+ HP is valid...I mean why is it just a stretch to pull 3 - 8 more hp out of the engine with a better exhaust...and further more...the numbers that I am adding is that if you have a 65 HP bike, get an 8% increase to put you at 70 HP...and then add a PCV which has been seen to give an increase of anywhere from 5 to 15+HP depending on your tuner...then you would have a bike somewhere around 75 to 85+ with a great dyno tuner...we have already seen a bike with a modded exhaust and a PCV hit 87...put on a better exhaust and see the number jump...agree to disagree, but my mechanic...who builds race bikes...says it's totally possible...just depends on how hard you are willing to push the engine

we know nothing other than that one dyno chart.. that dyno could be wrong, could be not calibrated correctly or many other thing could effect its outcome. Also think of brands, I dont remember the two leading brands of car dynos but I know if you dyno the same car on two different brand dynos you get different numbers.

A few HP is one thing, something easy to accomplish, but you are talking a 40% increase in power! That seems like more than a stretch! Also I am not 100% sure on this because I am use to working on older machines worth carbs but how can you push a FI engine?? The PC lets you adjust the AF mix but how can you push it any father?? There are 3 mods you are talking about less restrictive intake, less restrictive exhaust and the perfect af mixture, what exactly is left to push? If Yamaha could of easily squeezed an extra 40% power out of the engine that easily dont you think they would of tweaked it a little them self, if all its coming down to is A:F

 

[FZ1inNH]

and then add a PCV which has been seen to give an increase of anywhere from 5 to 15+HP depending on your tuner...

:disapprove: :eyebrow: :thumbdown: :shakehead: :spank:

5 is possible but prove to us a tuner can squeeze 15+ out of ANY 600cc FI I-4 and I don't care what you do to the exhaust... straight pipe, slip-on, modded stock... It just isn't happening. It it were, that tuner would have a line from NYC to LA waiting for his "Magical" tuning ability.

This is from a former FZ6 owner who had the best tuner in his area work on his bike.

The PC is only a device to manage fuel delivery. The cool thing about the 5 vs. the 3 is that the 5 offers a greater level of granularity; more Throttle Positions, more RPM ranges, and the possibility of a map per gear. All very cool, but not more hp. The hp lies in the tuners ability to get the mixture correct.

Other points to consider; what type of dyno was the test/tune done on, were the correction factors the same, was the bike on mounted on the dyno correctly, was the air pressure in the rear tire the same from run to run, and the MOST important question...WHO was doing the runs?

You get the idea...

On my FZ6 with an exhaust and a very good custom tune I got an increase of about 7hp.

Tuner notes:

2007 Yamaha FZ6 USA Model (REAL REDLINE IS 13,600 LIMITER)
No oxygen sensor emulator, runs on closed loop to 20% throttle and 6500 rpm, changes below these values make no difference
Triple catalyzers are EXTREMELY efficient resulting in .1-0.0% CO and HC in 30-40ppm range
Owner: Pete
Akrapovic SP series Slip Ons CE approved (Db-Killer Removed) - Catalyzer in place
Stock or aftermarket air filter
No other known mods
tuned by [email protected]
Dyno: Factory Pro EC997 with 4 gas EGA