New Bike Break In
- Thread starter Mystery16
- Start date
hfd1 tuner
New Member
Here is my 2 cents,,,well maybe 10...Back ground on myself gearhead forever been building engines since the age of 10 yes 10 had a garage next to my house and they raced late model sportsman cars what more could a kid want! Now I am 44. Been through the Quaker state ash oils up to todays fine lubes. I own a performance shop that builds road racing and drag engines for bikes. Have been a mechanic all my life ASE Master Tech blah blah Collage ect.
My FZ6R was rolled out of the dealership...I was doing a dyno day there with the mobile truck..wife said she bought me a bike...how nice of her... I hopped on it rode down the back alley on the short street turned around and drove into the dyno.idled it up and down till coolant temp turned fan on. I then with no load just used the drum weight of the dyno whent from 2500 to 7000 rpms wot the decell closed throttle 20 times then went from 4000 to the almost redline wot with coasting down with throttle closed.Did this untill no smoke on the decell i.e. the rings were seated... This was all done in a large crowd of people with the dealer owner and service manager watching.
I asked for a drain pan and new filter and we dumped the oil and filter and poured in Yamaha lube back in it. Repeat the testing until get stable readings for HP output 62.4 on a Factory Pro Ec997C dyno = @73.6 on a dynojet dyno.
Why would I do this to my personal bike you ask? Because that is how I break in all my engines that I get paid to build.
Ok you need more than that...Onward than Engines are sweet now vs what we had in the 70's Machines now are very accurate and repeatable finishes are super good. But the one thing is the same... the oiling system basicly unchanged gears squish the oil and push oil into the engine and the clearance between the parts allows the pump to build PSI...ponder on that for a moment the clearance makes the psi...if you free flow a garden hose water just flows out put your finger over the end and it sprays wildly.
Ok basic engine piston rod crank trans chain wheel go right. Yeah we need a head valves a cam spark plug...ect some electrics to make spark. The basics have not changed for a LONG time
So in the 70's your car was worn out 80-90k if that. some maybe longer but the stuff broke....now we get 150k plus with unleaded fuel...so the whole lead in gas thing...rubbish yes metal tech has helped but it really is the machines that make the parts... much better.
Next want more?? Thought so ok the engine has a oil pump that forces oil between parts that is how oil psi is made right...as the engine is running the oil psi and of course the thickness of the oil keeps the parts from touching
metal right..face it rod bearings and plain bearing surfaces with no lube die very fast. The transmission has large roller bgrs for the most part and feed lube but are just splash lubed meaning the rollers ride on a film of non pressurized oil. The roller bearings have a gap the oil fits in so no metal to metal contact happens. The valves are lubed stem type so they ride on a film of oil. The camshafts are pressure feed plain bearing surface type some have roller bearing support on the chain side. The cam lobes are lubed by splash and have a film of lube between the lobe and bucket again metal to metal at 5k(valve train turns half speed) rpm would melt very fast. That leaves the pistons and rings the magic parts
Ok the piston cylinder walls get sprayed with oil from squirters feed more main line lube oil the piston has a skirt clearance of roughly .002 of a inch kind of like a plain bearing but we have oil that again keeps everything neat and tidy making all the moving parts play nice with one another. next up is the rings the 70's mega rings high tension type thick stiff wall scraping type wore out the cylinder walls stuff...carbon making leaking blow by producing things they were...Today we have very thin LOW tension rings and very round smooth bores.
More? Ok back to "break in" What is getting broke in? Are we getting metal to metal contact? If we are things break fast. The combustion process is a explosion of fuel and air pushing the piston down. The RINGS make it happen. With the low tension ring very little force is applied against the cylinder wall and the oil rings keep the large amount of oil from entering the combustion area. The top ring pushes out with the compression and seals it from going down the piston side the second ring is a back-up and helps balance the piston in the bore. So what is there to break in? The rings will wear in slightly but it happens very early in the life of the engine. The hone pattern of the cylinders help this but the stage of seal vs wear only happens for a very short time. Heat cycles change the metal of the rings too. On the dyno you can see the changes happen with the decell and the smoke out the pipe Vacuum loading on the rings is just as important as loading pressure is to getting good ring seal. wot(Wide Open Throttle) forces the ring against the walls and down on the ring lands of the piston decell lifts them and tries to suck oil past the oil rings...ie the smoke...
I have seen bikes on the dyno that still smoke with 10k on the clock...I ask how did you "break" it in....you can guess the answer....I baby steped it
Tear down a good engine and have a look at the piston rings the amount of brown stuff between the rings on the piston tells the story of how good of a seal you have on the engine. Keeping the combustion stuff sealed and pushed out of the engine is good Leaking combustion past the rings makes blow by and oil in the airbox dirty oil engine wears out faster due to fuel containments in the oil carbon build up extra heat ect.
I see engines from street to wild nos engines..you can see the factory coating on the cam journals same with the main and rod bearings. The oil does the work.....Dirt is the bad guy one small piece between the bearing and boom you have contact the dirt drags into the bearing and wears it..
Best to break it in early and drain the dirt out early the alu. cases are dirty and will muddy up the clean oil quick the clutch fibers flake off with new clutches too. I never put more than 10-20 miles on a new engine before changing the oil and filter.
I know that was more like a 50 cent piece
I just did a 2 day track day at Roebling Road with the FZ6r over 200 track miles and my oil looks new no dirt have 2 more days at Barber next weekend. I am adding:
Race tech gold valve and springs up ft. and installing a gold valve in the rear shock.I will make a update thread on that.. I need to do the exhaust system but I am having so much fun passing the guys on 750's and 1000's in the turns on a stock bike....they have the high dollar adjustable forks and shock......life is good
My FZ6R was rolled out of the dealership...I was doing a dyno day there with the mobile truck..wife said she bought me a bike...how nice of her... I hopped on it rode down the back alley on the short street turned around and drove into the dyno.idled it up and down till coolant temp turned fan on. I then with no load just used the drum weight of the dyno whent from 2500 to 7000 rpms wot the decell closed throttle 20 times then went from 4000 to the almost redline wot with coasting down with throttle closed.Did this untill no smoke on the decell i.e. the rings were seated... This was all done in a large crowd of people with the dealer owner and service manager watching.
I asked for a drain pan and new filter and we dumped the oil and filter and poured in Yamaha lube back in it. Repeat the testing until get stable readings for HP output 62.4 on a Factory Pro Ec997C dyno = @73.6 on a dynojet dyno.
Why would I do this to my personal bike you ask? Because that is how I break in all my engines that I get paid to build.
Ok you need more than that...Onward than Engines are sweet now vs what we had in the 70's Machines now are very accurate and repeatable finishes are super good. But the one thing is the same... the oiling system basicly unchanged gears squish the oil and push oil into the engine and the clearance between the parts allows the pump to build PSI...ponder on that for a moment the clearance makes the psi...if you free flow a garden hose water just flows out put your finger over the end and it sprays wildly.
Ok basic engine piston rod crank trans chain wheel go right. Yeah we need a head valves a cam spark plug...ect some electrics to make spark. The basics have not changed for a LONG time
So in the 70's your car was worn out 80-90k if that. some maybe longer but the stuff broke....now we get 150k plus with unleaded fuel...so the whole lead in gas thing...rubbish yes metal tech has helped but it really is the machines that make the parts... much better.
Next want more?? Thought so ok the engine has a oil pump that forces oil between parts that is how oil psi is made right...as the engine is running the oil psi and of course the thickness of the oil keeps the parts from touching
metal right..face it rod bearings and plain bearing surfaces with no lube die very fast. The transmission has large roller bgrs for the most part and feed lube but are just splash lubed meaning the rollers ride on a film of non pressurized oil. The roller bearings have a gap the oil fits in so no metal to metal contact happens. The valves are lubed stem type so they ride on a film of oil. The camshafts are pressure feed plain bearing surface type some have roller bearing support on the chain side. The cam lobes are lubed by splash and have a film of lube between the lobe and bucket again metal to metal at 5k(valve train turns half speed) rpm would melt very fast. That leaves the pistons and rings the magic parts
Ok the piston cylinder walls get sprayed with oil from squirters feed more main line lube oil the piston has a skirt clearance of roughly .002 of a inch kind of like a plain bearing but we have oil that again keeps everything neat and tidy making all the moving parts play nice with one another. next up is the rings the 70's mega rings high tension type thick stiff wall scraping type wore out the cylinder walls stuff...carbon making leaking blow by producing things they were...Today we have very thin LOW tension rings and very round smooth bores. More? Ok back to "break in" What is getting broke in? Are we getting metal to metal contact? If we are things break fast. The combustion process is a explosion of fuel and air pushing the piston down. The RINGS make it happen. With the low tension ring very little force is applied against the cylinder wall and the oil rings keep the large amount of oil from entering the combustion area. The top ring pushes out with the compression and seals it from going down the piston side the second ring is a back-up and helps balance the piston in the bore. So what is there to break in? The rings will wear in slightly but it happens very early in the life of the engine. The hone pattern of the cylinders help this but the stage of seal vs wear only happens for a very short time. Heat cycles change the metal of the rings too. On the dyno you can see the changes happen with the decell and the smoke out the pipe Vacuum loading on the rings is just as important as loading pressure is to getting good ring seal. wot(Wide Open Throttle) forces the ring against the walls and down on the ring lands of the piston decell lifts them and tries to suck oil past the oil rings...ie the smoke...
I have seen bikes on the dyno that still smoke with 10k on the clock...I ask how did you "break" it in....you can guess the answer....I baby steped it
Tear down a good engine and have a look at the piston rings the amount of brown stuff between the rings on the piston tells the story of how good of a seal you have on the engine. Keeping the combustion stuff sealed and pushed out of the engine is good Leaking combustion past the rings makes blow by and oil in the airbox dirty oil engine wears out faster due to fuel containments in the oil carbon build up extra heat ect.
I see engines from street to wild nos engines..you can see the factory coating on the cam journals same with the main and rod bearings. The oil does the work.....Dirt is the bad guy one small piece between the bearing and boom you have contact the dirt drags into the bearing and wears it..
Best to break it in early and drain the dirt out early the alu. cases are dirty and will muddy up the clean oil quick the clutch fibers flake off with new clutches too. I never put more than 10-20 miles on a new engine before changing the oil and filter.
I know that was more like a 50 cent piece
I just did a 2 day track day at Roebling Road with the FZ6r over 200 track miles and my oil looks new no dirt have 2 more days at Barber next weekend. I am adding:
Race tech gold valve and springs up ft. and installing a gold valve in the rear shock.I will make a update thread on that.. I need to do the exhaust system but I am having so much fun passing the guys on 750's and 1000's in the turns on a stock bike....they have the high dollar adjustable forks and shock......life is good
Road Rubber2009
New Member
Hello, I read in a Tech book on oil, that if the bike or car has been started once, the oil has been contaminated and needs to be changed as the oil becomes acidic destrying your seals, in six months , this is very bad in an engine.
hfd1 tuner
New Member
oil never goes bad it just gets dirty..well basicly speaking get down to polamar spliting you could say it goes bad but it is a place that picks up all the junk that gets past the rings The ph levels change more in the coolant than the oil. If that was me I would change the oil and the coolant. Changing the oil to much is never going to hurt it. Nothing special about the oil in it from the factory. Getting rid of the dirty oil only is a good thing
as for engine break in dont lug it and dont hold at red line /when i had my v 1100 manual called for 20-40 dealer wanted to sell me 20-50 [cause thats all they had] they said yami changed recomendation lol . they sold suzuki branded oil with api rating S L which was to heavy for that bike [could tell it didnt like it] when i bought fz they said i should only use yamalube and not rotella because it was motorcycle oil so i told them rotella was jaso MA certified and he looked at me me funny and asked what that meant so i told him ok for bikes lol;;;
Road Rubber2009
New Member
FZ6R break in
Hi, i have a new 2009 FZ6r with 4 miles on it and ive heard alot about breaking it in. The manual says for the first 1000 miles avoid prolonged full throttle or red line . Then from 0 till 700 miles avoid prolonged operation above 5800rpm. Change oil and filter then avoid prolonged operation above 7000rpm.
I have read a method on here about pinning it with no load, 2500 to 7000 then decel 20 times. Next 4000 to red line till it stops smoking. I might have read that incorrectly and he had it on a dynojet in gear not nutreal but i cant find that post to ask him.
Its my experience that any load {bogging it} or prolonged operation at any rpm, is just wrong during break in. The same as the mechanic says on my new trucks. I also fear redlining it with no load in nutreal.
On my new Suzuki {20 years ago} they said red line it but dont hold it and do that alot, for 600 miles wich wasnt easy because it did 80mph at redline in second gear.
Now engines are much more advanced and my dealer wont give a straight awnser, so I'm open on any and all opinions in this very important issue.
Thanks,
Road Rubber
Note: i have a two bros full exaust and a power comander V
Hi, i have a new 2009 FZ6r with 4 miles on it and ive heard alot about breaking it in. The manual says for the first 1000 miles avoid prolonged full throttle or red line . Then from 0 till 700 miles avoid prolonged operation above 5800rpm. Change oil and filter then avoid prolonged operation above 7000rpm.
I have read a method on here about pinning it with no load, 2500 to 7000 then decel 20 times. Next 4000 to red line till it stops smoking. I might have read that incorrectly and he had it on a dynojet in gear not nutreal but i cant find that post to ask him.
Its my experience that any load {bogging it} or prolonged operation at any rpm, is just wrong during break in. The same as the mechanic says on my new trucks. I also fear redlining it with no load in nutreal.
On my new Suzuki {20 years ago} they said red line it but dont hold it and do that alot, for 600 miles wich wasnt easy because it did 80mph at redline in second gear.
Now engines are much more advanced and my dealer wont give a straight awnser, so I'm open on any and all opinions in this very important issue.
Thanks,
Road Rubber
Note: i have a two bros full exaust and a power comander V
This has been disscussed before many times,here::http://www.600cc.org/forum/f13/new-bike-break-20422/
If this were true, the roads would be littered with new bikes with trashed engines. Consider that every brand new bike gets test run at the factory, then spends a month or more in transit, and then sits in a crate or on the dealer floor, sometimes for up to a year, or more.
Oh wait, I said I would shut up on this topic after Chris showed me a picture of acidic oil eating an engine. Never mind.
hfd1 tuner
New Member
do not free load it in neutral,,,,load it either on the road or a dynoHi, i have a new 2009 FZ6r with 4 miles on it and ive heard alot about breaking it in. The manual says for the first 1000 miles avoid prolonged full throttle or red line . Then from 0 till 700 miles avoid prolonged operation above 5800rpm. Change oil and filter then avoid prolonged operation above 7000rpm.
I have read a method on here about pinning it with no load, 2500 to 7000 then decel 20 times. Next 4000 to red line till it stops smoking. I might have read that incorrectly and he had it on a dynojet in gear not nutreal but i cant find that post to ask him.
Its my experience that any load {bogging it} or prolonged operation at any rpm, is just wrong during break in. The same as the mechanic says on my new trucks. What happens that is bad?
On my new Suzuki {20 years ago} they said red line it but dont hold it and do that alot, for 600 miles wich wasnt easy because it did 80mph at redline in second gear.
Now engines are much more advanced and my dealer wont give a straight awnser, so I'm open on any and all opinions in this very important issue.
Thanks,
Road Rubber
Note: i have a two bros full exaust and a power comander V
You have some good points here hfd1 tuner. I'm sure some of us appreciate someone with proper knowledge and experiance. Let me know when you're ready for an exhaust and PCV. I came up with a really nice set up for half the price of the big boys exhaust. The demand is starting to come in... I was able to build a very decent map for it using the Auto tune widget. (I could have done it with a Wideband O2, but they were the same price) PCV has a "Acceleration Pump" feature... awesome. Check out "R6 exhaust marthy edition" and "marthy map"
That's what I've been doing!
i followed the manuals instruction per the breaking and now that i have passed 1000 miles i have been pleased with the results. problem is that i have no way of comparing the suggested break in with alternative break in methods. it sucked having to keep the rpm's low but it had to be done and now that im free it feels good. the bike preforms well and im happy with the decisions i made. nevertheless, who knows how it would have preformed if i did a different breaking in method. would i have gained more HP if i did? how much HP would i have gained? would i or anyone be able to notice the difference; who knows... the bike rides well and im very pleased with the resultsThink I'll follow the instructions given by the dealer, don't think you can go wrong that way. Not about to ruin my $6000 bike
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I think you made the right choice. I believe that you would not have gained more horses. I believe if anything, had you gone above specifications and pushed the bike too much you may have created issues with the engine that may not be reversable and would have to get it fixed on/off warranty. Or possibly loss of torque/horsepower. But I'm not a pro so I'm just speculating. Hope you enjoy the F*** out of your ridei followed the manuals instruction per the breaking and now that i have passed 1000 miles i have been pleased with the results. problem is that i have no way of comparing the suggested break in with alternative break in methods. it sucked having to keep the rpm's low but it had to be done and now that im free it feels good. the bike preforms well and im happy with the decisions i made. nevertheless, who knows how it would have preformed if i did a different breaking in method. would i have gained more HP if i did? how much HP would i have gained? would i or anyone be able to notice the difference; who knows... the bike rides well and im very pleased with the results
I have an FZ6RAC and have been doing it by the book. As hard as it is i keep my revs less than 6 and never hold them their for long. It seems like the bike really wants to go around that range, and shifts better. I do go on bout a 25-30 mile rides about once or twice a day(IF THE BALL AND CHAIN LETS ME OUT TO PLAY) and i will keep the revs moving from about 4.5 to six, is that a good way to break in a new bike?
sm00thpapa
Member
WOW, sounds just like me. I only have 310 miles on my bike and only go between 35 and 40 MPH staying between 4K and 6K revs because of my living area. I hope I am not damaging the engine.
I am trying very hard to stay below 6k RPM to follow the OM break in method. I am now at about 400 miles. I find it very hard though because of the roads in the area. I try to do SOME city driving and back roads that are 55mph zones so that I can try to keep the RPMS around 5 to 5.5, but then I also go onto a local hiway with a 65 mph limit. If I go the limit I am cruising along at 6k maybe slightly more. However, then I am being passed and "pushed" like crazy. I try to blow it off and let them pass but sometimes I feel I need to keep up and push it up to 70-75 then I feel I am doing wrong because I end up cruising for a while between 6.5-7 or more.
i just followed what the manual said and the dealer. keep it under 5800 for first 600mi, then change oil and filter, then under 7000 until 1000mi, then i just changed the oil and filter again just to make sure i got the last of the metal shards. Now dont have to change oil until 4000mi
sm00thpapa
Member
Remember the manual says no prolonged throttle above 5800 RPM for the first 600 miles and 7000 RPM from 600-1000 miles. That doesn't mean you can't venture over 7K RPM for a few seconds. I only have 350 miles on mines and go to 8000-9000 RPM once in awhile. I changed the oil out at 300 miles and used a K&N oil filter with Castrol 4T dino 10W-40. I'm gonna take that oil to 1,000 miles then change it to Castrol Racing RS 4T Full Synthetic 10W-40 till 4,000 miles. At 4K miles I'm going to Shell Rotella 15W-40 for the rest of the bikes life. With an OCI of 2,500 miles.
First 100 miles i stayed in the manual limits, next 500 i just started riding normally and tried to open it up at least once per ride to 8-9k. You feel the bike getting stronger and smoother every ride, that's how I know it's broken in. 698mi on the odo now, and I am only now going to change the oil. Using yamalube and K&N filter. All this talk about these metal shavings and dirty oil... isn't that what the oil filter is for? Granted it's a crappy stock OEM paper filter, but filter nonetheless?