Gentle Reminder, ATGATT (NSFW, sorta.. not bad though)

[Brock Kickass]

My only point is that what I wear or don't wear is my choice. If you think my gear is stupid, don't wear it. If you think riding with no helmet is stupid, wear one. I know you guys have the best intentions in trying to educate people to gear up, but they need to want to hear you before they will ever hear you, and they don't want to hear you.

Anyone on here smoke cigarettes? Drink whiskey? Climb trees? Play hockey? Swim? A million other activities? There are people out there who think you're nuts to do any/all of them, but you obviously think it's fine. So yes, it has been proven that proper gear reduces the severity of injuries. That's cool, everyone knows it. Everyone also knows the smoking causes cancer, drinking kills your liver, you can drown in 2 inches of water, and you have better odds of being killed by a lightning strike than winning the lottery. All we can do is make our own choices based on this knowledge.

I think there are a lot of cool, intelligent people on this forum who have their $hit together, but when I gear up it's for me, not for them. What that means is that you're wasting your time and energy telling me I am wearing too little or too much gear. Why does it matter what other people wear?

I rode through NH this weekend and at least 75% of the riders I saw were not wearing helmets. To me, this is unthinkable! To them, it's cool. Whatever. I even saw a guy on a ZX6R with full leathers, racing boots, gloves, and a naked melon. I thought it was really weird. Apparently, he didn't. I didn't spend my weekend trying to educate anyone. I just geared up and rode the snot out of my bike in the safest way I know how, and had tremendous fun doing it. It was a hoot!, and way more fun than trying to influence other people who really don't want to listen. Thankfully, none of them took it upon themselves to try to convert me to their way of thinking either. Also, lots of dudes with no helmets don't wave to dudes with helmets on. I guess it makes them mad that someone out there disagrees with them or something.

No matter how right you are, there is always someone out there more right than you. Just be true to yourself. If you're not gearing up, please do it because you don't want to wear gear and not because someone told you your gear isn't cool. All the gear in the world won't protect you from the wrong headspace. Make sure yours is screwed on straight before you ride.

 

[yellowfz]

Race car driver wear fire suits, helmets, gloves, boots etc... When they get into their Mercedes to go home they don't gear up (cars are unsafe as well), when they get on the plane (planes are unsafe too) where fighter pilots wear pressure suits, oxygen mask, gloves, boots, they don't gear up.
Everything has risk, gear does help, but if I am not racing or know I am not going to race, it is a reasonable assumption if I am a good cautious rider I will be okay with just boots, gloves, helmet, pants and a highly visible shirt.
But hey whatever floats your boat.
Don't impose your standards on others!

jacobdahl beat me to it!
Ride safe, ride with caution, ride often.

 

[CrazyCawi]

Race car driver wear fire suits, helmets, gloves, boots etc... When they get into their Mercedes to go home they don't gear up (cars are unsafe as well), when they get on the plane (planes are unsafe too) where fighter pilots wear pressure suits, oxygen mask, gloves, boots, they don't gear up.
Everything has risk, gear does help, but if I am not racing or know I am not going to race, it is a reasonable assumption if I am a good cautious rider I will be okay with just boots, gloves, helmet, pants and a highly visible shirt.
But hey whatever floats your boat.
Don't impose your standards on others!

jacobdahl beat me to it!
Ride safe, ride with caution, ride often.

and when your in a vegtable state because you chose not to wear a helmet or gear that day because you assumed the risk and thought you had better skill than the risk at hand....I hope you remember those words.

Im not telling you what to do, I am simply saying that logic is dumb. But I guess thats why we have self selection.

 

[Brock Kickass]

I have a buddy who, when told of an injury or death by stupidity, says "that's not a tragedy, it's natural selection." Always cracks me up, but true. I believe in gear and safe riding 100%. I guess there are some cats out there who believe 110%, because I've been scolded for not gearing up to run to the store 3 blocks away. (Lazy not to walk, I know.) Where does it end, though? I get my bike out of the shed and roll it to the front of my house with no helmet on every morning. I like to see people geared up. It tells me they are responsible and serious about riding. I don't bother blowing my horn at squids with no lid on, though. I just don't ride with them. CC does have a really good point: You're safer with your gear than without. It's a fact.

 

[CrazyCawi]

Why does it matter what other people wear?

because to some it is near and dear to heart. I have lost friends and family to this ill logic. you want to sit and say I can or cant tell you what to do? Thats not the point, the point was Im pointing out the flaw in the logic being used. Then the defense becomes "dont tell me what to do I am my own person."....ill finish this when I have more time to waste

 

[Brock Kickass]

I get what you're saying, but everyone's logic makes sense to them, even if it doesn't to you. When someone tells me I need a helmet to ride across the lawn and put my bike in for the night, I roll my eyes and think to myself that they really need something better to occupy their time. To them, though, I'm a complete idiot for not putting on a lid before I put a leg over my bike, period. I'm not any more right than them, and they're not any more right than me. To each of us it makes perfect sense.

It truly is sad that you've lost family and friends to bad logic, bad decisions, or bad curcumstance. I'm sorry for your loss and feel badly for you that these people paid so dearly to learn this lesson for others. It makes it a completely different ball of wax when it's people you care about. I look for bikes for my wife, and there are days when I think I'd rather she didn't learn to ride at all. She didn't have the benefit that I did of growing up on bike. But she's her own person, so all I can do is make sure she knows how much I care about her so that it helps her to make the right choices if and when she rides.

You're not wrong, CC, but you'll never win. As much as you know that you're safer with gear than without, there will always be someone who thinks they don't need it. Maybe they'll be lucky, maybe they won't. But they are not interested in listening to you. They are interested in looking cool for the chicks, or cheating death, or fitting in with the Tuesday Night Squids, Local Chapter. All you can do is tell the people you love that you need them to come home at night. That will have a lot more impact on them than anything else you can do, and it will help them make the right decisions. As for the ones you don't know, cross your fingers that you never get to tell them "I told you so."

 

[buzzbomb]

Personally, I think most everyone's argument here is pretty valid, and the following is directed at no one in particular:

There's a point on this thread that's been missing about preaching ATGATT: What if we didn't?

Some of you may be thinking "Well so what, I'm not going to listen anyway, and at least you'd be quiet!" Granted on both counts. It's not going to happen, though. You see, I personally can't stand it every time I read of a rider down, who could have been saved from (more serious) injury if only they'd been wearing some inconvenient, armored clothing.

Why do I care? It doesn't matter. The fact is that I do. The occasional mention of the fact I wear gear would have little to no positive impact. Unrelenting preaching on the subject is the only effective method available. So that's what I do.

1. The most skilled, safest rider on the planet can still go down. We are not the most skilled, safest rider on the planet, ergo, we can still go down.

2. Even in a minor accident, serious injury can occur.

3. Although nothing is going to protect a motorcycle rider from damage in an extreme accident, wearing full gear helps to mitigate the damage that will occur.

4. In the majority of minor accidents, those being accidents in which there is little to no body to object impact, and most damage is caused by abrasion, full gear can actually prevent any serious injury at all.

If you don't believe those four simple statements, I think you're deluding yourself. If you agree with those statements, then it's one thing to say you accept that risk, and it's your life you're living. That's true.

It would be another thing entirely if you were part of a motorcycle community, our forum, that never told you that jeans are nearly useless, and if you're wearing shorts you might as well be naked - or if those facts were only mentioned quietly in passing, and so were ignored or quickly forgotten.

The preaching may be irritating at times, but it sometimes works. If you are the person who will never ride ATGATT, then you won't. But still, be thankful for the ATGATT preachers. Even if you personally disagree with the message and/or method, at least there are people out there who care passionately about educating and protecting their fellow riders. That's gotta be worth a little irritation at having to read another ATGATT post.

 

[CrazyCawi]

The preaching may be irritating at times, but it sometimes works. If you are the person who will never ride ATGATT, then you won't. But still, be thankful for the ATGATT preachers. Even if you personally disagree with the message and/or method, at least there are people out there who care passionately about educating and protecting their fellow riders. That's gotta be worth a little irritation at having to read another ATGATT post.

YOU DA MAN! THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY BUT YOU PUT THEM INTO WORDS. WELL DONE GOOD SIR.

 

[Nastybutler]

Im not telling you what to do, I am simply saying that logic is dumb.

My new sig quote.

 

[buzzbomb]

Once again, it seems, the ATGATT argument wins out. Are there no dissenting opinions? Does no one have anything to offer that might make any of my four points invalid? Are there no intelligent argument against the reasons for ATGATT?

Unless someone steps forward, it would seem that I've closed another thread with an unassailable argument for ATGATT. Anyone?

It's not about how awesome I am. It's about the simple, undeniable fact that ATGATT works. Dissenting opinions? Anyone?

 

[furiousgeorge]

Wow arguments and discussions are so much easier in Australia...

 

[Brock Kickass]

Once again, it seems, the ATGATT argument wins out. Are there no dissenting opinions? Does no one have anything to offer that might make any of my four points invalid? Are there no intelligent argument against the reasons for ATGATT?

Unless someone steps forward, it would seem that I've closed another thread with an unassailable argument for ATGATT. Anyone?

It's not about how awesome I am. It's about the simple, undeniable fact that ATGATT works. Dissenting opinions? Anyone?

I'm not saying the logic behind ATGATT is flawed. Wearing gear is better than not wearing gear. I've never denied that. I just think that, just because I think something is right doesn't give me the right to push that on others. I really like Yamaha bikes, Canadian whiskey, a healthy lifestyle, (yes, I listed those last two back to back) and a bunch of other crap that you don't really care about but that makes me think I'm smarter than everyone else. You might not dig that, but I don't tell you to.
I don't wear ATGATT. I guess I'm ATGMostTT. Yes, it's a little riskier than gearing up every time I look at my bike, but by that argument we should be wearing our gear to walk our dogs.
I'm never going to criticize someone for wearing gear. It's the safest thing to do. You want to put on your Valentino Rossi costime to ride your scooter to the store? Good for you! You look a little silly, but you're doing the smartest thing you can. BUT, even though I disagree with it, I'm not going to criticize someone for wearing no gear at all. It's none of my business. I might think they're a little crazy, but some of my friends think I'm a little crazy for owning a bike to begin with. Some of you guys think I'm a little crazy for not wearing a leather onesie.
So, yes, please tell anyone who will listen why gearing up is a good idea. Tell anyone who is interested how safe your gear is. But please don't call someone an idiot because they don't fall in line with you, and please don't cram your gear down someone's throat. Respect each other's choices. It's easier when people get along...

 

[danieljardim]

I don't go ATGATT because I don't have ATG. I guess I have the bare minimum,
Helmet, Textile Jacket with armor, Gloves.

I am a cheap bastard. You will never see me spending $129.00 on kevlar underpants. My opinion, gear is overpriced.

Somebody is gonna jump and say. Is you skin worth $129.00? No is worth more, now if the leather pants would cost $9589 would you buy it? My skin is worth way more than 10k for me.

I'm riding a bike, I'm taking the risk. I try to ride safe and on speed limits. Always trying to improve my riding to "TRY" to avoid any surprises on the road.

I'm not against ATGATT. You wanna wear everything possible, go ahead. Do it. Somebody else doesn't want to. Say to him once "hey buddy, I recommend you wear gear". he doesn't want to listen? F**** Him. It's HIS problem.

Please don't turn the whole ATGATT moto into a very annoying thing and you guys end up being like Jehovah witness ringing door bells and preaching in the porch on sunday morning.

 

[Rabbitman109]

I definitely agree with ATTGATT, and try to convince as many people as possible. As daniel said, tell them once, maybe twice. If they don't listen, it is their problem. I don't care if someone doesn't want to wear gear. I think it is not smart, and dangerous, but hey not my problem. I am glad that I have all the gear, yes it is expensive, but the $750 in gear that I had on Saturday, allowed me to walk away from a lowside....at highway speeds. No major injury. That to me is worth it. I don't care if you are an experienced rider or not, it can, and does happen. Why not be prepared? Everyone is free to make their own choice, no matter how smart or un-smart it may be.

 

[dart1963]

I all I can say, to people who think gear is overrated or too expensive or they want to live free, is to just read the stories....

start here: Rock The Gear

read here: Rock The Gear

and if not, at least read this bit:

On the contrary, only a few very unlucky people know the true consequences, the reality of the situation, and the weight that this decision actually carries. I didn’t wear all of my gear because no one had ever shaken me by the shoulders and told me this: “If you don’t wear your gear, you will rip off all of your skin. It will hurt like hell for a long time… pain you cannot even imagine. You will rack up over half a million dollars worth of medical bills. You will put your family through the worst experience of their entire lives. Your amazing father, your daddy, will have to leave the hospital room on several occasions because of your screams in pain. Your husband will never come to visit you in the hospital, nor will he call or write to see how you are doing. You will know what it is like to be truly alone for the first time in your life. Your parents will be forced to miss work, lose sleep, drive to the hospital, and fear for your life every day for nearly 2 months. The financial burden on yourself and your family for the next several years will be large. You will lose your job. You will lose your ability to join the military and serve your country. You will lose the ability to walk and move on your own. You will never have beautiful skin again. You will lose all of your beautiful hair. You will spend your mother’s birthday in a hospital gown and a wheelchair. The emotional stress from this accident will affect you until the day you die. You will lose full motion in your knees for the rest of your life and they will be in constant pain. People will stare at you in the gym, in restaurants… hell, people will stare at you everywhere. You will never be fully free of the consequences of this decision. And all of this is what you are choosing when you choose not to wear gear.”
So, no, I had no idea what I was getting myself into… and neither do many of the riders out there today.

 

[Invader Jim]

It's about the simple, undeniable fact that ATGATT works. Dissenting opinions? Anyone?

ATGATT does work. I wear most/all GATT. Riding is about risk management. If you want to be safest on the road, don't ride a motorcycle. If you want to be safer still, fly whenever you can because statistically flying is less hazardous than driving.

Saying you are ATGATT is open to interpretation. Below is a list of protective gear categories I copied from bikebandit.com.

• Ankle Supports
• Back Protectors
• Chest Protectors
• Ear Plugs
• Elbow Guard
• Knee / Shin Guards
• Knee Sliders
• Neck Supports
• Palm Protectors
• Shoulder Protection
• Support Belts
• Technical Undergrarments
• Wrist Support

All the gear for me in summer includes; full helmet, summer gloves, mesh jacket, mesh pants, boots and once in a while earplugs. Mesh is not nearly as good as leather. I don't have a chest protector, back protector, neck support, support belt, technical undergarments, wrist support, shin guards, and knee sliders. Looking at what I omit, am I really ATGATT?

It doesn't really matter how I classify myself or how anyone classifies me. I choose to ride and I protect myself in a way that I am comfortable with. If you want to ride and be your safest, always wear full gear and always ride conservatively/defensively. On the opposite end of the spectrum; ride naked and recklessly. We make choices every time we get on a bike.

 

[JT]

post links to her webiste on your face book and any other way you can to spread the word

 

[Brock Kickass]

I ride naked every time I leave the house

 

[JSP]

I ride naked every time I leave the house

Woooooot!

 

[dart1963]

I ride naked every time I leave the house

and I get, you and others don't ATGATT... freedom is cherished...

it's the new riders who don't think twice about it that concerns me... I was a new rider once too and never even thought about riding pants or boots (vs jeans and combat boots)... these stories and reading/seeing someone go down opened my eyes