FZ6R Sales

[WenMark]

For what it is worth...I spoke to a Yamaha dealer in Tampa. He showed me 50+ turn down applications just for the FZ6R (most were young persons b/t 18-30 yrs). He said Finance/Banks have really tightened the belt on lending. He said he could of been a top sales dealer with the FZ6R if they could of got financing for it. He also said since they have excess inventory of them that is what is making the value on them drop. If they start moving our resale value would be worth more. Come on banks we need more FZ6R owners. Save our value

 

[Mart Man FZ6R]

I'd have to agree this is a really sucky thing. I financed my 6R and the wife and I have over 700 credit score and we didn't get the lowest interest rate. I was WTF?? Dealer said he's seen 700+ get turned down. This is a very sad state of affairs indeed.

 

[Detrich]

but more teeny boppers riding around and getting hurt would in turn raise our collective insurance rates, no?

 

[porky45]

but more teeny boppers riding around and getting hurt would in turn raise our collective insurance rates, no?

ehhh most insurance companies have age brackets right? isn't that why most people's insurance goes down when they're 25?

it's crappy that the age is 25... i'm 23 (so be it a kid), however i'm much less inclined to be a moron then when i was 21.

 

[CDN6R]

As I posted else where on this forum,,, in Canada these bikes are completely sold out.(honestly more motorcycles are sold in N.Y. than probably in all of Canada). My dealer would LOVE to get more FZ6R's.

 

[Superfly]

because in canada we the people arent completely broke and the banking industry isnt bleeding to death from a complete meltdown of poor loans...

you really cant piss your countrys wealth away forever and expect no pain for the people.

Listen to me...you aint seen nothing yet when it comes to interest rates...its inflation or double digit interest or both...better be ready cause from what i hear the stimulus bubble is bursting and the next will be the currency...

ahh there i go again way off topic...what were we talking about

 

[dart1963]

Spread the word... 401K loan... that money ain't doin' $hit in the market, invest it in some fun and fuel savings! Swinging a $5k loan (well, they surely have something saved up) on a 5 year 401k loan will net you about $60-70 / paycheck... it's worth every penny, right?

that's what I did anyway... pay myself 2% or lose 10%... no brainer....

yeah, yeah, there's the argument about paying taxes twice ( you do repay the loan with after tax dollars), but with 4 kids and little income now... my tax rate is so low it don't really matter.

 

[Back To Reality]

I heard similar discussion at the dealer when I bought mine; the salesperson was speaking about how motorcycles are essentially a luxury item for MOST people, and if money get's tight, it is one of the first things people will stop paying for.

I personally don't think the lending issue is a problem for anyone except the dealers and manufacturers. I've follow the Dave Ramsey strategy with all my purchases since 1995, and that included my FZ6R, my last bike, my Virago...etc.

Save up, pay cash.

We can't really criticize the gov't for overleveraged spending when most of us practice the same financial behavior every day.

That said, one thing worse than borrowing for a motorcycle is borrowing from your 401K for a motorcycle. I understand that many 401k's are struggling for the moment, but it is a result of passive investing and active spending and borrowing.

The passive dollar-cost averaging strategy used by the majority of people who put money into their 401k works pretty well in a good economy, but it stings like a death adder when the economy is struggling.

If you take an active approach, you can still make money in a down market (or at least preserve your capital and capital gains), by taking an active approach in which you move your capital to an inverse ETF position, or at least transfer it to a money market (called a "cash" position) when the market is pointing downward, as it has been doing for the past two weeks.

But no matter what you do, borrowing against your retirement is simply a bad idea.

BTW, I'm not a religious guy, but this link gave some good baseline discussion as to why it's bad to borrow against your own retirement.

 

[dart1963]

If I had a decent 401k I could agree, but making 0.3% in our only "money market" fund is actually losing money against inflation. Preserving my capital would be at least making what inflation is.
As I said, there are those who think it's a bad idea.... I'm not against it.. I'm also not up to my ears in debt, just didn't have $5k laying around.

Back on topic:

most people who go out for these loans are probably all ready up to their ears in debt and that plays a big role in whether or not they can get a loan for, what the banks consider, a "recreational vehicle". As many of us on here do though, we use it for our main mode of transport. I'm sure if someone with no other car loans walked in it wouldn't be as bad, but then again, I'm not the bank.

Lets all hope this works out and Yamaha doesn't pull the plug just because of a bad economy. I think they are doing it right by delaying some new models in the U.S.A. rather than pulling existing models.

 

[mas4489]

I tried to get a loan (credit card basically) through Yamaha and was actually denied. I got my own financing through my bank and couldn't have been happier

Bank was kemba credit union, loan 3.9% and didnt have to pay for the first 3 months

 

[angelsneverlose]

I heard Yamaha is pretty stickler about giving out there cards. I have a 720 score and had no issue getting on however. In fact, mine came with a cap of 16K...

The main reason why people like the card is because then you physically own the bike. You do not carry a lien on it, just a CC balance. This is key for younger people who can only afford liability insurance, because with Yamaha financing, you are able to only have liability where if you use a bank loan, most require full coverage that a lot cant afford. They quoted me 4K for 1 years insurance my first year!! the bikes barely wroth that on street value, there was no why in hells id pay that...

 

[CDN6R]

I tried to get a loan (credit card basically) through Yamaha and was actually denied. I got my own financing through my bank and couldn't have been happier

Bank was kemba credit union, loan 3.9% and didnt have to pay for the first 3 months

Gosh,,I think that 3.9% seems to be a decent rate. I remember that in 1981 I financed a new car through GMAC at 14% interest,(that was a special rate). The banks wanted,if I remember correctly around 18% and mortage rates were at about 20% at the time.

 

[Mart Man FZ6R]

Gosh,,I think that 3.9% seems to be a decent rate. I remember that in 1981 I financed a new car through GMAC at 14% interest,(that was a special rate). The banks wanted,if I remember correctly around 18% and mortage rates were at about 20% at the time.

You might have those numbers backwards. My GF in '81 bought a Turbo Tans Am and was paying 21% interest on a 3 year loan. Bought my first house in 1987 and I think the variable interest rate at that time was 12% ish.

Sure am glad those days are long gone. Current home loan is just over 5% fixed.

 

[Back To Reality]

If I had a decent 401k I could agree, but making 0.3% in our only "money market" fund is actually losing money against inflation. Preserving my capital would be at least making what inflation is.
As I said, there are those who think it's a bad idea.... I'm not against it.. I'm also not up to my ears in debt, just didn't have $5k laying around.

Back on topic:

most people who go out for these loans are probably all ready up to their ears in debt and that plays a big role in whether or not they can get a loan for, what the banks consider, a "recreational vehicle". As many of us on here do though, we use it for our main mode of transport. I'm sure if someone with no other car loans walked in it wouldn't be as bad, but then again, I'm not the bank.

Lets all hope this works out and Yamaha doesn't pull the plug just because of a bad economy. I think they are doing it right by delaying some new models in the U.S.A. rather than pulling existing models.

A 401k is a function of it's owner and the owner's behavior. It's performance is not just a function of it's name (Fidelity, TIAA, JP Morgan, etc), it is also a reflection of the person who owns it. If you are a passive investor and saver when it comes to your 401k, then the 401k's gains (and losses) will be just as passive as you.

Few people have $5k laying around, but anyone can SAVE $5k. If you can pay off a $5k loan + interest, then you can save $5k...which will make interest for you while you save it.

Preserving capital by definition is "not losing what you put in." It is not an action whereby you match inflation.

Putting it into a money market when the market goes down is exceptionally wise, because a fractional percentage gain in a money market is better than losing money, and the market (as measured by the DOW), is down about 500 points in the past week. I was invested half in cash, half in an inverse ETF until about 2 days ago, and now I am all in cash, having made a few percent on the short side, while the long-side investors are hoping for a bottom soon (they better not hold their breath). I lose nothing while people who passively invest (typically on the long side), are down about 1.4% just in the past two days.

That said, I also hope the motorcycle market stays strong. Unfortunately, riders like us who use our Yamaha's as a primary mode of transport are an extreme minority. I know far more leisure riders than I know people who use their bikes for commuting; I am annoyed by coworkers who brag for years about riding, but I as of yet have not seen their bike in the lot at work. My coworkers think riders are somewhat eccentric, and they always think of reasons as to why they need to drive their SUV's and minivans to work.

Basic market function indicates that Yamaha needs to either introduce or maintain models that sell. We need to get more riders on the road, and if they aren't buying existing models, then Yamaha may need to try something new. That part was just to keep it on topic!

 

[Back To Reality]

I heard Yamaha is pretty stickler about giving out there cards. I have a 720 score and had no issue getting on however. In fact, mine came with a cap of 16K...

The main reason why people like the card is because then you physically own the bike. You do not carry a lien on it, just a CC balance. This is key for younger people who can only afford liability insurance, because with Yamaha financing, you are able to only have liability where if you use a bank loan, most require full coverage that a lot cant afford. They quoted me 4K for 1 years insurance my first year!! the bikes barely wroth that on street value, there was no why in hells id pay that...

$4k for one year!? Holy crap!

Robbery.

 

[Roaddawg]

Few people have $5k laying around, but anyone can SAVE $5k. If you can pay off a $5k loan + interest, then you can save $5k...which will make interest for you while you save it.....

.....That said, I also hope the motorcycle market stays strong. Unfortunately, riders like us who use our Yamaha's as a primary mode of transport are an extreme minority. I know far more leisure riders than I know people who use their bikes for commuting; I am annoyed by coworkers who brag for years about riding, but I as of yet have not seen their bike in the lot at work. My coworkers think riders are somewhat eccentric, and they always think of reasons as to why they need to drive their SUV's and minivans to work.

Loan for $5k vs. saving $5K....yeah, that is true, but we live in a society of "I want it NOW!", so most people can't wait to save the $5k. I saved up almost $3k when I bought mine, and I was pretty happy with that. (plus, it helped convince the wife ) I've figured that I have nearly paid for my bike in the savings costs versus what I would have paid if I had just drove my truck to work everyday (over $5500 a year for gas and tolls vs. $1000 for gas and toll-free on the motorcycle)

I agree more people should ride to work especially the poser riders. I've been commuting on mine over a year now (16,500+ miles) and ride almost every day I can. I was thinking the same thing about those co-workers that brag about being riders. They have pictures of their bikes as their screen savers, talk about riding, etc....but I have never actually seen them on their bike!

 

[pyrocpu]

Gee, not quite sure what your guys 401k is doing... lost half its value a year and a half ago in that whole bank collapse debacle occurred, with Lehman Bros being the straw that broke the camel's back. Since then, it's at about 130% of my previous peak!

Passive investments by way of long-side investments... losing 1.4% in 2 days... those long term investors don't particularly care. That 1.4% drop would never be realized by those folks--they're in it for the long term!

Best thing to do if you're itching to do something if your portfolio's not where you want it to be, is to dump all the stock you have, then slide it over to a same-industry stock, given that the same-industry company isn't too volatile. Say for instance your portfolio's down, and you're sitting on a bunch of Yahoo stock. Dump it all, use whatever funds that are freed up to buy Google stock, for instance, and then declare your realized losses in the 2010 tax return next April. Bam, done.

 

[sm00thpapa]

Don't beat me up on this but I got screwed when I got my FZ6R. I wanted it so bad and only GE Money Bank would finance me at 15% interest. I paid $7,200 OTD and make a $176.00 payment a month for 5 years. I have been sending $400.00 a month so I can pay it off quicker. Oh forgot to mention it I added the 5 year warranty with it from Yamaha.

 

[Back To Reality]

Gee, not quite sure what your guys 401k is doing... lost half its value a year and a half ago in that whole bank collapse debacle occurred, with Lehman Bros being the straw that broke the camel's back. Since then, it's at about 130% of my previous peak!

Passive investments by way of long-side investments... losing 1.4% in 2 days... those long term investors don't particularly care. That 1.4% drop would never be realized by those folks--they're in it for the long term!

Best thing to do if you're itching to do something if your portfolio's not where you want it to be, is to dump all the stock you have, then slide it over to a same-industry stock, given that the same-industry company isn't too volatile. Say for instance your portfolio's down, and you're sitting on a bunch of Yahoo stock. Dump it all, use whatever funds that are freed up to buy Google stock, for instance, and then declare your realized losses in the 2010 tax return next April. Bam, done.

I've been doing this a long time, so don't be surprised if I don't believe that you've recovered to 130% of your previous peek.

The DOW was knocking on 14,000 in Oct of 2007, and over the next 17 months (roughly), it dropped to about 7,000. That equated to roughly 50% losses for most long-side passive 401k investors. The problem is that once you lose 50%, you need gains of more than 50% to just get back to your previous peak.

I'll use nice round numbers to show the point; let's say your 401k was $100 bucks. if you lose 50%, you are down to $50 bucks. After that, a 50% gain will only take you back to $75 bucks. This is the scenario most 401k folks are facing.

So, recalling that the DOW was at a high of around 14k in 2007, I have to point out that the best we've done since then is 11k, and lately we've been hanging out around 10k. So I'm skeptical of anyone who claims to have recovered to 130% of their previous peak, especially if they did it only on the long side. If you can do that, you need to start a hedge fund.

As far as those investors not caring about a 1.4% drop...keep in mind this is over a very short period of time, so they should take notice...and there were a lot of advisers saying the same thing in late 2007...the result was near catastrophic losses for many people. BTW, 1.4% of a fund based on the Dow in 2010 is more devestating loss than a 1.4% loss during this same time in 2007 because most people have less money now than they did in 2007. It's more painful to lose $1400 our of $100k than to lose $2800 of $200k.

There is no really one "best thing to do," and the "sell yahoo, buy google" strategy is (I'm sorry), simply ridiculous. What if they owned Home Depot? Would you tell them to sell and buy Lowes stock? That would be a waste of time. Both are following the same trend line (downward at the moment), and the same goes for Yahoo and Google.

Diversification is essential. There is really no such thing as "industry stock." You can, however, purchase sector ETF's just like a stock, and you can invest in just 2-3 ETF's and be pretty well diversified. Own a few shares of a Russell Indexed ETF, a few shares of an S/P indexed ETF, and a few shares of a NASDAQ indexed ETF using an online account, and you have purchased a broad array of stocks with minimal expense. Definitely a lot cheaper than a broker or an Edward Jones advisor.

That is the simple part; the more complicated part is knowing when to exit your long position and hide out in cash for a bit.

When the market was hanging out close to 14,000 in 2007, I went to cash, and while some might make fun of my measly 1% gains over the next 17 months, the rest of the country was crying over 50% losses...remember all the 201k jokes? No crying here.

If you are really aggressive, you could try some investment on the short side; while investors sit on losses over the past couple weeks, I went short on some ETF's and made 5%.

This kind of active strategy is why I've paid cash for everything I've bought since 1993, including two college degrees, the fully loaded jeep I bought in Dec 2008 when the market was almost at the bottom, and the FZ6R I just bought last week to replace my Virago.

But I say again...the 2007 Dow was 14,000, and the 2010 Dow is less than 10,000. If you prefer another index, I'll use the NASDAQ, which is 25% below it's 2007 high and hasn't matched the 2007 high.

Even Buffet's Berkshire Hathaway only pulled off 2.7% last year...so I'm not inclined to find claims of a 130% recovery to be reliable or rational, especially given the advice.

Not trying to be a critic, just being a skeptic.

 

[Back To Reality]

Don't beat me up on this but I got screwed when I got my FZ6R. I wanted it so bad and only GE Money Bank would finance me at 15% interest. I paid $7,200 OTD and make a $176.00 payment a month for 5 years. I have been sending $400.00 a month so I can pay it off quicker. Oh forgot to mention it I added the 5 year warranty with it from Yamaha.

Ow...that stings a little, but you are doing precisely the right thing at the moment. Best of luck.

Time will tell if I should've gotten the extended warranty.