To ethanol or not to ethanol

[2w05thletes]

Pretty simple. Do you use fuel with or without ethanol? Do you go out of your way to find a station that carries what you want?

I had a bystander pull in to the gas station the other night to talk to me about my bike. We had a casual conversation about his (Aprilia) and mine and it turned to ethanol. It made me curious as to the viewpoint all of you had.

 

[dart1963]

no choice in VA... it all has ethanol...

 

[2w05thletes]

Before this guy and I discussed it at the pumps I had never put a thought into it. I voted it "doesn't matter" because that's the view I held. I think because the tank is so small anyway and it wouldn't cost much more I'll go with no ethanol for a while and see if I can tell a difference.

 

[TigerGenetics]

Most stations around here all have ethanol. So if I luck out and find one that doesn't have it, great, if I go to a station that has it, oh well. Its only "up to 10%" and that is within tolerance per the owners manual so I don't care.

 

[sammy56]

I could me mistaken, but perhaps the high octane gas does not contain ethanol....not sure though.

 

[JSP]

Most all around here are all ethanol. I have one right next to me though that has premium 93 ethanol free Almost $4 a gallon though!

 

[Marthy]

Doesn't matter at all! Todays engine are design for pop-corn fuel. The only issue, if there was any, would be the fuel line. If you were going to go 85%-100% alcohol you would need special hoses but at 10% or less... as long as it burn! Few year back I was working for that Formula Ford team in Montreal. They had few left over F1 Elf fuel from the year before. So one day I was broke and needed gas. I dump a 5 gals jug in my car and when home. Dude! I was going 60 mph down the freeway with my window open and my eyes were burning like hell. The EFI adjust itself and the car was fine (88 Accord). As long as it burn... eyes too.

 

[J.J.]

The last two stations in my area can no longer get non-ethenol soooo.
So no choice anymore.
I carry a treatment bottle in my tail bag & add a capful at fillup. We do the same thing with our sleds. My dealer who I ride with got me in the habit of keeping one in the bag.

 

[Back To Reality]

I can't say I'd know where to go around here to find a pump that didn't say "May contain up to 10% Ethanol."

I don't really know the difference, but would like to read some opinions.

I've noticed, however, that I get a rare and faint tap that seems to stay away when I use higher octane...and my bike is just about to turn 1k.

 

[Sage]

About half the stations in my town have 10% ethanol and I choose not to use it. Main reason being that my car is recommended not to and also says to use 91 octane or higher, which is sold mostly at the places w/o ethanol for some reason, so I just go to the same station with the bike out of habit.

 

[guidobergamo]

Flex fuel motorcycle

Here in Brazil has a lot of ethanol(alcool in portuguese)! In my state (São Paulo) is consumed more alcohol than gasoline cars. A liter cost R$1,50 = US$0,80, but the price varies widely during the year. In my little pick-up i just use ethanol.

See this Honda motorcycle: Honda CG 150 Titan Mix

Is the first flexfuel motorcycle in the world! Uses ethanol or / with gasoline in any proportion! It is a commercial success here!

 

[2w05thletes]

Here in Brazil has a lot of ethanol(alcool in portuguese)! In my state (São Paulo) is consumed more alcohol than gasoline cars. A liter cost R$1,50 = US$0,80, but the price varies widely during the year. In my little pick-up i just use ethanol.

See this Honda motorcycle: Honda CG 150 Titan Mix

Is the first flexfuel motorcycle in the world! Uses ethanol or / with gasoline in any proportion! It is a commercial success here!

Clever design. Those 18" wheels look fantastic on it!

 

[toddjcruz]

Use of Ethanol in gas will reduce your MPG and your overall power, as well as burn your engine hotter. With 10%, it's not a significant amount in any area. If I can find it without it, I would use it. But, in Oregon, and many places, you just don't have a choice.

 

[husker525]

I personally hate ethanol, but I use it, and it won't hurt your bike. After a long period of time, it can be hard on rubber parts that it comes in contact with, but most likely, your bike will be worn out before that even happens.

I have tracked fuel mileage in my Chevy Silverado, and my bike, using ethanol, and without ethanol. Fuel mileage drops using ethanol. I am not a chemist, but I think it burns either hotter, or quicker. It is supposed to add power, but without a dyno, I don't notice the additional power. I know that pulling a trailer with my truck, ethanol=6 mpg, non-ethanol= 11.2 mpg.

I would never run E85 in my bike though. My truck is set up to run on it, but unless the price for E85 is half price of other fuel, or more, it is not worth it. I never run E85 pulling a trailer either, or I would have to fill up every 120 miles....lol

 

[toddjcruz]

Ethanol provides worse fuel economy because it contain less complex carbons, or smaller carbon chains. Less carbon, less energy per gallon. Thus the drop in fuel economy. As for power, if you have an O2 sensor and your ECO can adjust for it, the system will simply use more fuel for specific mix of air simply because it needs to in order to maintain 14.7:1 ratio. Thus you don't have a loss of power on cars that run E10/E85, they simply dump more fuel in to compensate. As for our bikes, there is no O2 sensor, so I dont know how it's figuring out that there is less carbon to be mated to the Oxygen, so my guess is that it's running LEAN. That can cause your bike to run hotter. I would need to know more about the FI system on the bike and how it works.

 

[JSP]

I've been running premium w/ethanol since I got the R6. This last tank of gas i used the premium non-ethanol. Got an extra 25 miles on the tank before my light came on. Not sure its worth the extra money for non-ethanol though... Almost a $1 a gallon more so maybe an extra $4 a tank.

 

[Marthy]

Ethanol provides worse fuel economy because it contain less complex carbons, or smaller carbon chains. Less carbon, less energy per gallon. Thus the drop in fuel economy. As for power, if you have an O2 sensor and your ECO can adjust for it, the system will simply use more fuel for specific mix of air simply because it needs to in order to maintain 14.7:1 ratio. Thus you don't have a loss of power on cars that run E10/E85, they simply dump more fuel in to compensate. As for our bikes, there is no O2 sensor, so I dont know how it's figuring out that there is less carbon to be mated to the Oxygen, so my guess is that it's running LEAN. That can cause your bike to run hotter. I would need to know more about the FI system on the bike and how it works.

Your right! Methanol run around 6.7:1 if I can remember. Ethanol is a bit better than that (I've been told Indycar use a mix of 15% gas in there) can't remember the real number. Just one thing I like to say about Flex Fuel. Manufacturer are trying so hard to make the MPG better that they run those engine lean like crasy. Ever try to just hammer the gas pedal on the freeway with a flex fuel car? Almost feel like your running out of gas.

I will get a PC in the future. What are your tough about installing a EGT? They call it auto-programming or something like that. Does it worth the investment compare to spending a day on the dyno? :canada:

 

[volkmkiv]

I personally hate ethanol, but I use it, and it won't hurt your bike. After a long period of time, it can be hard on rubber parts that it comes in contact with, but most likely, your bike will be worn out before that even happens.

I have tracked fuel mileage in my Chevy Silverado, and my bike, using ethanol, and without ethanol. Fuel mileage drops using ethanol. I am not a chemist, but I think it burns either hotter, or quicker. It is supposed to add power, but without a dyno, I don't notice the additional power. I know that pulling a trailer with my truck, ethanol=6 mpg, non-ethanol= 11.2 mpg.

I would never run E85 in my bike though. My truck is set up to run on it, but unless the price for E85 is half price of other fuel, or more, it is not worth it. I never run E85 pulling a trailer either, or I would have to fill up every 120 miles....lol

I use e85 on my supra. Its a sub for racegas. I had to upgrade my injectors to 1200cc and get a third fuel pump.
As for running e85 on my bike (fz6r) that just stupid in my opinion.

 

[2w05thletes]

Golly am I glad I don't live where some of you live. Ethanol "enriched" gasoline, as it's called here, is on average only 20-30 cents less expensive than non-ethanol.

 

[dart1963]

Sadly, it's going to get worse. Despite the fact that it makes worse MPG, cost the same or, in most cases, more, the farmers have a big voice in government and are winning the battle:

The High-Stakes Fight Over Ethanol Content in Gasoline | BNET

Option to choose ethanol-free gasoline diminishing - Columbia Missourian