Gentle Reminder, ATGATT (NSFW, sorta.. not bad though)

[CrazyCawi]

it is your choice. But your choice affects the paramedic who has to scrub the gravel from your skin and listen to your agonizing cries for not doing it. Did he have a choice? Nope it is his job to save you and preserve your life. Did your choice force that upon him? So who is selfish here? Have I riden without a helmet, yes. Did I feel more vulnerable than standing nude in time square? Hell yes. Will I ever do it again? Not a chance.

If you want to so be it. But remember every new rider you encounter they mimic what other riders around them do. When our group rides we are all geared. If your not geared up you dont ride with us. Thats our choice, because we care and look out for one anothers best interests. Yeah that non geared kid might be pissed, but its enough for him to take a look and think: "am I really being smart going on a spirited ride without a helmet, gloves, and jacket?"

 

[Brock Kickass]

Paramedics know what they're getting in to. Being a paramedic and complaining about blood and guts is like riding with no gear and complaining about your injuries.

 

[CrazyCawi]

Paramedics know what they're getting in to. Being a paramedic and complaining about blood and guts is like riding with no gear and complaining about your injuries.

I didnt say the paramedic is complaining. See thats the tunnel vision I am talking about.

You say views are imposed on you about atgatt. But the choice to not be atgatt imposes that stupidity upon others because they have to help you or they witness the situation when you go down.

 

[Invader Jim]

But the choice to not be atgatt imposes that stupidity upon others because they have to help you or they witness the situation when you go down.

I was riding for fun on a Saturday this Spring on some local twisties. I was northbound and fully geared. There were ~12 riders on sportbikes in a tight pack headed southbound and gear was minimal. RPMs were way up and they were loud and fast. I encountered them in a turn that they took too fast. One rider crossed the yellow line into my lane. I moved over and he moved back before collision. Whether he was ATGATT doesn't matter much to me. He was reckless and could have caused a fatal accident. The fact that he had very little gear only made him more of a dumbass. How riders ride is much more important to me than what they wear.

I am glad the group you ride with has strict rules about gear. It sets a good example. I think everyone should wear gear. I especially want those I care about to gear up. But when it comes down to it, I get much more upset about recklessness than gear.

 

[Brock Kickass]

Look, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. I mean, you seem like a pretty sensible guy, and I like you as much as I like anyone who I have never actually met. We're on the same page here, more or less. We both believe in gear, and we both believe in responsible riding.
The only reason I engaged this topic is because I took offence to the time some random tool told me I wasn't wearing enough gear and called me an idiot. I was wearing gear, but I guess he figured anything short of racing leathers was suicidal. He doesn't know my deal, and has no right to engage that conversation with me. I think people should wear gear, but I don't think it's my place to make them.
In any case, there's no sense driving a wedge between 2 people for such a subtle difference. It's like Catholics and Protestants killing each other. They both believe a different version of the same story. (I bet I take a ton of crap somewhere down the line for that one)
CC, I respectfully disagree that it's up to people to change other people's minds about gear. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying it's not how I roll. Peace?

 

[furiousgeorge]

ATGATT does work. I wear most/all GATT. Riding is about risk management. If you want to be safest on the road, don't ride a motorcycle. If you want to be safer still, fly whenever you can because statistically flying is less hazardous than driving.

Saying you are ATGATT is open to interpretation. Below is a list of protective gear categories I copied from bikebandit.com.

• Ankle Supports
• Back Protectors
• Chest Protectors
• Ear Plugs
• Elbow Guard
• Knee / Shin Guards,
• Knee Sliders
• Neck Supports
• Palm Protectors
• Shoulder Protection
• Support Belts
• Technical Undergrarments
• Wrist Support

All the gear for me in summer includes; full helmet, summer gloves, mesh jacket, mesh pants, boots and once in a while earplugs. Mesh is not nearly as good as leather. I don't have a chest protector, back protector, neck support, support belt, technical undergarments, wrist support, shin guards, and knee sliders. Looking at what I omit, am I really ATGATT?

It doesn't really matter how I classify myself or how anyone classifies me. I choose to ride and I protect myself in a way that I am comfortable with. If you want to ride and be your safest, always wear full gear and always ride conservatively/defensively. On the opposite end of the spectrum; ride naked and recklessly. We make choices every time we get on a bike.

Exactly the point I made. Heaps of times. Anyone wear high viz EVERYTHING? If no, then you're not atgatt. Its black and white. Atgatt stands for something, its not a rough guide. I'll quote myself "if you bet me you can eat all the chips in a bowl, and you only eat some, who wins the bet? Its not some of the gear all of the time. Its ALL"

 

[CrazyCawi]

Exactly the point I made. Heaps of times. Anyone wear high viz EVERYTHING? If no, then you're not atgatt. Its black and white. Atgatt stands for something, its not a rough guide. I'll quote myself "if you bet me you can eat all the chips in a bowl, and you only eat some, who wins the bet? Its not some of the gear all of the time. Its ALL"

But their is always a minimum base and to us that's a layer of gear on. No matter the color. Boots, pants, gloves, jacket, helmet at a minimum. The rest is all relative.

 

[StarZero81]

I don't have much to add to this except that I'm pro-atgatt preaching. I'm sorry to those who have heard it 30 kajillion times and already have an established opinion, but for those that haven't it could save a life, or serious injury.

 

[Nastybutler]

it is your choice. But your choice affects the paramedic who has to scrub the gravel from your skin and listen to your agonizing cries for not doing it. Did he have a choice? Nope it is his job to save you and preserve your life. Did your choice force that upon him? So who is selfish here?

I think a better analogy would be, "Does your family really have a choice in wiping your vegetable ass when you got brain damage from your choice to not wear a helmet?"

 

[buzzbomb]

I'm not saying the logic behind ATGATT is flawed. Wearing gear is better than not wearing gear. I've never denied that. I just think that, just because I think something is right doesn't give me the right to push that on others. I really like Yamaha bikes, Canadian whiskey, a healthy lifestyle, (yes, I listed those last two back to back) and a bunch of other crap that you don't really care about but that makes me think I'm smarter than everyone else. You might not dig that, but I don't tell you to.
I don't wear ATGATT. I guess I'm ATGMostTT. Yes, it's a little riskier than gearing up every time I look at my bike, but by that argument we should be wearing our gear to walk our dogs.
I'm never going to criticize someone for wearing gear. It's the safest thing to do. You want to put on your Valentino Rossi costime to ride your scooter to the store? Good for you! You look a little silly, but you're doing the smartest thing you can. BUT, even though I disagree with it, I'm not going to criticize someone for wearing no gear at all. It's none of my business. I might think they're a little crazy, but some of my friends think I'm a little crazy for owning a bike to begin with. Some of you guys think I'm a little crazy for not wearing a leather onesie.
So, yes, please tell anyone who will listen why gearing up is a good idea. Tell anyone who is interested how safe your gear is. But please don't call someone an idiot because they don't fall in line with you, and please don't cram your gear down someone's throat. Respect each other's choices. It's easier when people get along...

Thank you for taking up the gauntlet and answering my challenge! You speak of extremes, though. A leather onesie to go to the store? Not only is that not what I wear, I don't even own one (though I wish I did).

As for calling someone an idiot for not falling in line with my own personal logic? I will admit, I sometimes use that term. But it's not because someone disagrees with me, it's generally because of their reasoning for not wearing gear.

Usually, when I call someone an idiot, they've said something along the lines of "I'm too good to crash." That may not be their exact words, but that's their meaning. That's generally when I say "stupid" or "idiot."

Nor do ATGATT riders think they're smarter than everyone else. Again, in general, we've simply accepted the fact that stuff happens, and we're willing to endure a little personal discomfort to literally save our skins. I will admit, when I see a squid on the road, I do feel smarter than he seems. Looked at logically, why the heck wouldn't I? It's a personal decision, but when I see that squid, I figure either I know something he doesn't, or he's chosen to just believe that he can't possibly go down, because he's just so cool. Looked at that way, how can I not feel smarter?

People buy frame sliders for their bikes, to protect the plastic in the case of a low speed down. It boggles my mind to think that same person doesn't realize their skin is not as tough as the plastic. To care more about the plastic on one's bike, than one's own skin? Or to not even realize that maybe, if you're worried about the scrapes on your pretty plastic, those scrapes on your body are WAY more serious?

What the heck can you say to that? I'm not ramming my ATGATT philosophy down anyone's throat. No one is being forced to read anything I post. I just hope those that read these posts kind of see the light.

How many downed rider threads does it take to convince someone that the relatively minor inconvenience that ATGATT poses is worth it? Sometimes, lots. So I'll keep plugging away.

I honestly appreciate your opinion. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything, though, including reading what I've just written. It's up to each individual to either accept the logic of ATGATT or reject it.

I feel comfortable in calling someone an idiot if they are unable to recognize the simple fact that they are liable to go down. And if they go down without gear, they're liable to get way more hurt than if than if they had the gear.

If that same person recognizes the fact that we are all liable to crash our motorcycles at anytime, due to circumstances beyond our control, and that person chooses not to be protected in that event? The only kind word that comes to mind is indeed, "idiot."

 

[buzzbomb]

I don't go ATGATT because I don't have ATG. I guess I have the bare minimum,
Helmet, Textile Jacket with armor, Gloves.

I am a cheap bastard. You will never see me spending $129.00 on kevlar underpants. My opinion, gear is overpriced.

Somebody is gonna jump and say. Is you skin worth $129.00? No is worth more, now if the leather pants would cost $9589 would you buy it? My skin is worth way more than 10k for me.

I'm riding a bike, I'm taking the risk. I try to ride safe and on speed limits. Always trying to improve my riding to "TRY" to avoid any surprises on the road.

I'm not against ATGATT. You wanna wear everything possible, go ahead. Do it. Somebody else doesn't want to. Say to him once "hey buddy, I recommend you wear gear". he doesn't want to listen? F**** Him. It's HIS problem.

Please don't turn the whole ATGATT moto into a very annoying thing and you guys end up being like Jehovah witness ringing door bells and preaching in the porch on sunday morning.

Hmmm. I don't personally own kevlar underpants. It's amazing how cheaply one can get basic gear, if they want to, though. That's kind of a lame excuse.

It's taken me years to accumulate all my gear. I have pictures up, of myself, before I had riding pants. I make crap for money at my job. I had to work up to full ATGATT.

I sincerely hope that whole "I ride the speed limit" thing works out in your benefit. You might consider though, that you're not the only person who rides within the speed limit, and those people sometimes have unforeseen things happen to them, that are called accidents.

I also sincerely hope that I'm not coming off as a "Jehova's Witness." I've got to admit, here, that I preach ATGATT pretty hard. There are, however, an innumerable number of videos posted all over the world, that back up any ATGATT postings with fact.

I'll state once again, no one has to read what I write. Much like choosing to agree or disagree, it's a choice. I don't come knocking on your door on Sunday morning. I come knocking on your door when you think about the fact that shit happens.

I would honestly put money down that when you seriously think about the stuff that can happen to any of us, on a motorcycle, you think about ATGATT. Agree or disagree, with whether it's necessary or not, you think about it.

That alone, says it all.

 

[CrazyCawi]

you know whats funny....I dont see any anti-atgatt videos. only videos of atgatt riders saying how it saved them, and non atgatt riders wishing they had wore it.

 

[CrazyCawi]

Id also like to add this discussion:

02Tac:
Quote from: CosmicHD on June 27, 2008, 10:12:56 AM
It is also proven that people have the right to conduct their life the way they want to as long as it does not harm others. Who are you to sit back and tell me riding without a helmet is not the thrill someone may be seeking out. Who are you to say that is not a viable reason for that person?
What sort of ego do you have on you to run around making decisions for others and dictating what they think is viable or not?

Actually, your choice to ride without safety gear does harm me. It harms us all in the wallet. Here is an interesting read - Motorcycle Helmet Laws

Now, back to issue at hand, STUPIDITY. If we follow the anti ATGATT mob (any other word would imply some sense of direction) then we should not be required to wear / use any type of safety gear at any time if we did not want to as that would impinge upon our freedom.

EXAMPLES THAT I FEEL ARE IN LINE WITH THE ANTI ATAGTTers THOUGHT PROCESS
-- I work around aircraft and heavy machinery. I should not have to wear steel toed boots, hearing protection or a hard hat.

-- Paint booth workers ahould not have to wear respirators.

-- Iron workers on tall buildings should not have to use fall protection.

-- Welders should not have to wear darkened / auto darkening face shields.


I am SURE that to most people these examples are just plain silly, but if you believe in the ANTI-ATGATT way of thinking it should make sense.

I am not telling you you must wear a helmet nor do I think that Uncle Sam should pass a law forcing you to. I am just telling you it is a damn stupid choice to make.

You want wind blowing in your hair?. SIT IN FRONT OF A FAN!!!

Let me ask one final question. The road is far far more dangerous that any race track yet you never see a racer zipping around the track without all the gear so WHY would you think you don't need any in a far more hostile environment than the racers occupies?

Kapowee mother trucka!!! lol

 

[CrazyCawi]

oh Id also like to add some visuals to this this gives BOTH sides of the equation with equal riders. Pure and simple.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dF32JYCJPw]ATGATT VS. SQUID - YouTube[/ame]

 

[buzzbomb]

The ATGATT war is on! Come on! Anyone else? I'm saying that the only reason to not be ATGATT is because you either think you can't go down, or you think that when you do, you're completely willing to accept the hospital time.

I'm going to go further and state that if you're completely willing to accept the hospital time, and all the costs involved, monetary and personal, you probably think you won't go down.

I didn't start this ATGATT discussion. But I'm going to end it right here, and PLEASE if anyone can contradict the following statement, please do so:

Someone, anyone, give me a reason not to be ATGATT that doesn't simply involve personal comfort...

Yep, that's it. "Oh, it's hot." "Oh, it's inconvenient." "Yep, I know all the benefits of the gear, but it's just too much trouble for me. I'll simply take my chances."

Here's my favorite: "I'm such an awesome rider that I'm not worried about going down, because I'm just that good!" Right. Toss that argument at me, please.

CC said it. There's not a single post anywhere on the entire internet against ATGATT. Think about that.

If there's any dissenting opinion, please share it. I'll be happy to reply. I'm not ramming the ATGATT philosophy down anyone's throat. I'm simply stating facts and asking for anyone's argument, logical or not, against ATGATT.

Bring it on. If you have an argument against wearing protective gear, other than the fact it's just too much effort for you? Heck, I don't know how I'd react because I honestly can't comprehend such an argument. Please, anyone, someone enlighten me.

If you've read this far, and don't have an argument against the gear? Then get some and wear it. It's kind of a no-brainer, in my personal, very well experienced opinion. Cheers!

 

[CrazyCawi]

Bring it on. If you have an argument against wearing protective gear, other than the fact it's just too much effort for you? Heck, I don't know how I'd react because I honestly can't comprehend such an argument. Please, anyone, someone enlighten me.

 

[CrazyCawi]

just wanted to show a bit more video evidence of how even the most simple of times shit just happens


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFD9az2eAv0&hd=1]The Effects of My Motorcycle Crash Without Gear - YouTube[/ame]

and btw if you think its a hassle to have or wear it check out my good friend johnny all the gear!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKP8kVMd7x8&hd=1"]The Hassles of Motorcycle Protective Gear - YouTube[/ame]

 

[leprecaun jon]

9 more days and my bike will be in the clear for riding.... yet i will be stuck waiting another possible week before i ride..... i refuse to ride before i get my riding pants and icon stryker mil spec vest..... my riding boots will have to wait another two weeks before i can afford those but till then i have a pair of boots i can wear....ATGATT or i wont ride....end of story.

 

[buzzbomb]

just wanted to show a bit more video evidence of how even the most simple of times shit just happens


The Effects of My Motorcycle Crash Without Gear - YouTube

and btw if you think its a hassle to have or wear it check out my good friend johnny all the gear!

The Hassles of Motorcycle Protective Gear - YouTube

In the first vid, that dude's got a concussion. I didn't finish the vid, his rambling, lost commentary was simply too much for me. I hope he went to the emergency room and there's no permanent damage. Just cruising around the block, and bam! You just never know when Murhpy's going to strike.

In the second vid? Heck, yeah! I don't have a onesie, it's not that simple for me. But it really can be that simple to have some basic protection. Two minutes and a few seconds. No excuse. Thanks for the vids.

 

[danieljardim]

I sincerely hope that whole "I ride the speed limit" thing works out in your benefit. You might consider though, that you're not the only person who rides within the speed limit, and those people sometimes have unforeseen things happen to them, that are called accidents.

That's why I said I ride on speed limits, to "TRY" to avoid accidents. I know shit happens but if you riding at 45 mph you have more time to react than riding at 135 mph.

About saving money for the gear.. I do save money, but I'm not gonna let my motorcycle sit in the driveway because I don't have riding pants.

I do agree with the ATGATT, I just don't preach it.