Electrical wiring help

[phantomxc]

For all you electrical gurus out there, I need some help!

I just ordered my flush mount front blinkers and before I install them I want my front LED lights (semi audi style) to flash with the blinkers as well. I think this will add just a little more safety while making it looks so much better. I'm thinking this can also be very simple.

So currently I spliced into the 12v running line and the ground. Once I replace the stock blinkers they are only going to use the flashing 12v line. Now I know I'm going to have to throw in a relay, but will that relay kill the constant 12v and accept the flashing 12v? I know nothing of relays besides my quick googling, a little guidance would be appreciated!

 

[cbzdel]

edit: i read the main post wrong, so I was of no help lol

 

[nccoder]

Is your bike the one that has those big,Audi type, row of LED's I saw a few weeks ago here?

 

[vdbergj1]

I can't help you, but...maybe you've seen this:
Boneman on Relays
Boneman is very helpful and I don't think he will mind you asking more questions.
Hope you get it right.

 

[goker]

For all you electrical gurus out there, I need some help!

I just ordered my flush mount front blinkers and before I install them I want my front LED lights (semi audi style) to flash with the blinkers as well. I think this will add just a little more safety while making it looks so much better. I'm thinking this can also be very simple.

So currently I spliced into the 12v running line and the ground. Once I replace the stock blinkers they are only going to use the flashing 12v line. Now I know I'm going to have to throw in a relay, but will that relay kill the constant 12v and accept the flashing 12v? I know nothing of relays besides my quick googling, a little guidance would be appreciated!

Do you want them to flash at the same time or alternating style? Wiring would be different depends on what you want.

 

[FZ1inNH]

I believe the way folks have done this here, if you want them to flash alternately, is to do the hot to hot and the ground for the add-ons are tied to the directional wire which controls the turn signal flash. When you add the relay into the mix, I am unsure but assume that, since the add-on's are LED, they would tie in the same way after the relay, otherwise, wouldn't you get the fast-flash on one and not the other (same side)?

 

[phantomxc]

Do you want them to flash at the same time or alternating style? Wiring would be different depends on what you want.

Ideally I would like them to flash at the same rate and time.

I believe the way folks have done this here, if you want them to flash alternately, is to do the hot to hot and the ground for the add-ons are tied to the directional wire which controls the turn signal flash. When you add the relay into the mix, I am unsure but assume that, since the add-on's are LED, they would tie in the same way after the relay, otherwise, wouldn't you get the fast-flash on one and not the other (same side)?

Doesn't really make sense to me. Since LEDs do require a + and - connection, connecting the directional wire which also sends a 12v signal to the ground wouldn't do any good? I think I'm going to draw up a diagram.

 

[hld4rvr]

For all you electrical gurus out there, I need some help!

I just ordered my flush mount front blinkers and before I install them I want my front LED lights (semi audi style) to flash with the blinkers as well. I think this will add just a little more safety while making it looks so much better. I'm thinking this can also be very simple.

So currently I spliced into the 12v running line and the ground. Once I replace the stock blinkers they are only going to use the flashing 12v line. Now I know I'm going to have to throw in a relay, but will that relay kill the constant 12v and accept the flashing 12v? I know nothing of relays besides my quick googling, a little guidance would be appreciated!

When I bought my flush mount i had the same issue. I went to Cycle Gear and picked up the adapter for our signal. It is a wire adapter that plugs into the two wires which then converts to the three prong. works great. Hope this helps

-mark

 

[phantomxc]

So here is a little diagram I quickly drew up at work showing how I'm currently wired. I know I'm going to have to throw in some relay (drew a standard relay outline) somehow but really I have no idea. I haven't been able to find any examples to base mine on.

I also just realized I might not of stated this but I would like the LEDS to be on all the time as well as blink with the turn signals.

 

[goker]

Well, actually you will have to do little more than just adding a relay. Here is what "I" think you want to accomplish, correct me if I am wrong:

You want to have your LED strip to light up when you have your bike on, but when you have your turn signal on, you want it to flash in sync with your turn signal (and you have "two" of these LED strips even though you have one headlight unlike my bike). Is that right?

In order to accomplish that, this is what you will have to do (we'll get to how little later):

You have to have independent constant power source to your each of your LED strips feeding from your ignition key (basically same power source for rest of your lights). You need to cut this power source when turn signal is circuit is on and instead receive power from the turn signal source which will make the LED strip flash at the same rate (and in sync) with the turn signal.

Generally, you need a little more complex circuitry to accomplish this type of behavior, but we want to do this just by using relays. So, here is "a way" to do this (others might think of other ways), but you will need to do little research to see where all these connections are on your bike as I haven't even looked at them on mine.

First you need to find how your left / right turn signal switch is activating your flasher. Once you figure this signal source, you need to add a relay to this circuit to "turn off" the primary power source to your LED strip for the appropriate direction. Then, you will need to add another relay that "turns on" the power to LED strip when light is activated for the turn signal (this relay is for isolating the turn signal circuit from the LED strip circuit so the power does not bleed back into turn signal when signal is not operating) which will energize the LED circuit back up in sync with the rest of the turn signal circuit. Depends on how the entire circuitry is functioning, you might also need to add few diodes here and there to avoid circuit bleeding.

As you can see this is little more complex hookup than if you want them flash alternatively and requires little more homework on your part. If you would want them to flash alternatively, you can just add a relay to the primary source of the LED activated by the turn signal circuit that "turns off" the power to the LED strip for the side you want to control.

Both these setups assumes you have "two" LED strips (which I would love to see how you put it in on single headlight system to get the Audi look) that has "independent" power sources.

If you have more questions and need further clarification, PM me with your email address and we'll take it off line. If you can send me how your bike is wired keeping in mind what you need to look at above, I can give you more ideas on how to do this. This will most definitely require some advanced wiring techniques.

 

[99vengeur]

Can't you just simply piggy-back the 12V source feeding the turn signals and attach the ground to the frame? This will give you a constant on and blink with the turn signals. You could do this using one of the connectors shown below.

 

[nccoder]

Okay. I whipped up a quick schematic that I think might help you.

You would use one of these circuits for the left turn and one for the right turn signals.

As you can see the running light signal runs through the normally close contacts on the relay. The relay is not energized so the current continues to flow the your multiple LED light assembly.

When your turn signal is applied to the circuit it lights your turn signal lamp/LED and energizes the relay which interrupts the current to your multiple LED assembly. Now you have a very visible alternating signal.

Hope this helps.
Cliff

 

[goker]

Can't you just simply piggy-back the 12V source feeding the turn signals and attach the ground to the frame? This will give you a constant on and blink with the turn signals. You could do this using one of the connectors shown below.

This will only make them blink. There is no "constant on" power source for this setup.

Okay. I whipped up a quick schematic that I think might help you.

Yes, this is what I was describing for alternating signals earlier which is much simpler setup, but I don't think that is what phantomxc wants to do (

Ideally I would like them to flash at the same rate and time.

I also just realized I might not of stated this but I would like the LEDS to be on all the time as well as blink with the turn signals.

)

 

[nccoder]

Yes, this is what I was describing for alternating signals earlier which is much simpler setup, but I don't think that is what phantomxc wants to do ( )

Thank you goker for your help on this.


Yes I realize that he said blink at the same time. And they will blink at the same time with this circuit, only they will blink in an alternate pattern while in the turn signal mode. Also I would like to add some circuit protection components if phantomxc wants to use this circuit. I think this will work fine.


Cliff

 

[phantomxc]

I don't necessarily need a relay, this was just suggested to me in passing and what I had been researching. I would definitely be up for a creating a circuit but it will require baby steps. I'm thinking this is going to be a project over the next few weeks. I don't want to screw anything up.

nccoder, I do understand your schematic but I'm just not familiar with the terminology. It looks pretty basic and I think I could get this to work. I would greatly appreciate some more help

 

[nccoder]

Okay You could easily make up a circuit board and even have plug-in serviceable relays. You may have to change the factory turn signal flasher to one that is designed for LED's but wait to see if the new relays will have enough load for the factory flasher. PM me when you need to.

 

[SirIsaac]

Based on some pretty dim recollections of stuff I learned a while ago and haven’t used since, I came up with a conceptual circuit to produce synchronized flashing of the running lights, illustrated below.

It uses a single relay which switches the supply to the accessory LED running lights from the running light supply wire to the turn signal supply wire when the signal is activated. It uses the turn signal supply wire to initiate the switchover through an RC timing circuit that holds a relay (rated at 6 Volts) closed while the turn signals are flashing. For those who may be interested in the details, it is intended to operate as follows: As soon as the turn signal is activated, the turn signal supply wire goes to 12 Volts. (For this discussion I will use the nominal 12 Volt supply voltage of the motorcycle electric system, ignoring the fact that the running voltage will be higher.). Capacitor C begins charging through resistor R1 (and the unlabelled diode.) The values of R1 and C are chosen such that the voltage on the capacitor reaches 12 Volts (minus the diode drop) prior to the time when the first on-flash of the turn signal ends, e.g. if the turn signal is on for 0.5 second, off for 0.5 second, etc. then we would want the capacitor to charge to full voltage in something less than 0.5 second. Sometime during the voltage rise of the capacitor, the voltage across the relay coil will reach 6 Volts and then be clamped at 6 Volts by the Zener diode. The relay will pick up and transfer the accessory LED running lights to the turn signal supply line. Then when the turn signal supply wire switches to zero for the first off-cycle, both the stock bulb and the accessory LED running lights will go out simultaneously since they are both now supplied from the same source. The capacitor will begin to discharge through the parallel combination of R2 and the series combination of R3 and the relay coil. The values of R2 and R3 (and the current sinking ability of the Zener diode) are chosen such that the voltage across the relay coil stays at 6 Volts during the time that the turn signal source wire is at zero voltage. That way the relay will stay picked up, so the accessory LED running lights stay connected to the turn signal supply, so they stay off. When the turn signal supply goes back to +12V, both the stock turn signal bulb and the accessory LED running lights will go back on, the capacitor will charge up again, and the cycle will repeat until the turn signals are cancelled. At that point, the accessory LED running lights will go off, and the capacitor will again start to discharge. However, now it will continue to discharge and when the voltage across the relay coil drops below 6 Volts, the relay will drop out, and the accessory LED running lights will switch back over to the running light supply. So they go back on and stay on until the next time the turn signal is activated. If the component values are chosen carefully, the time delay between signal cancelling and the accessory LED running lights switching back on should be no more than something on the order of twice the normal on-time of the turn signal, i.e. 1 second or less based on my postulated 0.5 second on/0.5 second off duty cycle. The fun part would be choosing the values of R1, R2, R3 and C to produce the above results. I’ll leave that as an exercise for the reader. Or I may have a go at it myself if I get the time. Other EEs are welcome to do so, or shoot down my concept altogether (if my recollections aren’t so good!) It is quite possible that I am making things more complicated than they need to be!

The above assumes that the stock incandescent turn signal/running light bulbs are used. If aftermarket LED blinkers are used, I believe that load resistors or some special module are required to insure that they blink at more or less the standard speed. And of course two such circuits would be required, one for left and one for right.

 

[nccoder]

Great circuit!

Thank you for the help on this!

Cliff

 

[SirIsaac]

Great circuit!

Thank you for the help on this!

Cliff

Thanks, you are quite welcome. I fully authorize and encourage you to build it! If I knew the exact duty cycle of the turn signals and had a 6 Volt relay to play around with, I think I could do it.

 

[phantomxc]

Wow! my head explode!