foreign.concept14
New Member
While we're on this topic,the 6r slows down just letting off the throttle pretty significantly. Is this due to the compression? I would imagine these are pretty high compression systems.
Every bike does that.
If this is the first bike you've ridden, I can see how it may seem like a lot of engine or compression braking. This bike is, I believe 12.3:1 compression (someone please correct me if I have that wrong) so compared to a car, yeah, the thing is going to slow down a lot by letting off. And that's all good if all you need to do is slow your speed for a turn but stay in the same gear. But a small inline 4 has nothing for compression braking to something like a big high compression V-twin. The general rule of thumb, the fewer cylinders and higher displacement, the more engine braking. Add in things like high compression pistons and thinner gaskets (like my uncle has on his Harley Fat Boy) and if you down shift from 3rd to 2nd without some kind of rev-matching, you WILL lock up the rear wheel. It's like standing on the rear brake as hard as you can. That's why using only compression braking when down shifting, especially if you're riding hard in the twisties, is not a good idea. Now if you only need to slow your speed to setup for the next corner but staying in the gear you're in, it's fine because you're not dropping down a gear. It's when you down shift and just rely on the compression braking that you can get yourself into trouble. Even on a small inline 4 like we have.
Jon,
I value your opinion on this more than most others on here based on what you do on your bike and the length of time you been riding her. What is the best way to learn proper blipping? I've heard from others it's just trial and error, but to do it at lower speeds on straight stretches. What say you? I can down shift just fine, but I definitely wanna learn the blipping technique for smoother, faster shifts. Thanks in advance.
Thanks for the vote of confidence 
I actually worked on the technique in the garage to get the timing down, then worked on it, like you said, on long straight runs. The good thing about it is most of the time when you don't hit it right its because you've over rev'd it and it'll tend to want to lurch forward a little. It is a feel thing unfortunately, just something you have to work on. Just like when you first learn to ride and you have to learn how to feel the friction zone on the clutch. Now it's second nature. Same thing with this.
The first time I really saw the technique in real time was in Keith Codes video Twist of The Wrist II. They show exactly how to do it. Here's a YouTube clip of it.
[ame=http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABNrYzqJgI]Twist.of.the.Wrist.II_mpeg4.avi - YouTube[/ame]
I actually worked on the technique in the garage to get the timing down, then worked on it, like you said, on long straight runs. The good thing about it is most of the time when you don't hit it right its because you've over rev'd it and it'll tend to want to lurch forward a little. It is a feel thing unfortunately, just something you have to work on. Just like when you first learn to ride and you have to learn how to feel the friction zone on the clutch. Now it's second nature. Same thing with this. The first time I really saw the technique in real time was in Keith Codes video Twist of The Wrist II. They show exactly how to do it. Here's a YouTube clip of it.
[ame=http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0ABNrYzqJgI]Twist.of.the.Wrist.II_mpeg4.avi - YouTube[/ame]
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Thanks Jon, So pretty much like I was told then. The 6R is forgiving as I have missed shifts like most of us do some time or another. I've never really tried the blip method, but I definitely see the potential. I'll work on it. Only thing I will have problems with is I have severe carpal tunnel and when my hands go numb I have problems with finger dexterity. I have a throttle lock that I put on for longer straights so that I can rest my hand. Gonna have surgery eventually, just hate the doctors. Probably going riding tomorrow for the first time since winter (other than one quick run around the neighborhood before exhaust mod). Will try it out some. Thanks again Jon!
You're welcome. I started doing it when I started riding at a speed when I was actually having to shift up in some areas to keep from hitting the rev limiter. Then suddenly I had to down shift again into the next turn. A lot of the local canyon roads you can just run in 3rd gear and never have to shift. but speed things up a bit and suddenly you're a bit more busy. The rear would get a bit sideways and things got a little sketchy. So I rewatched TWOTW and picked up the technique. The way I like to do it is index and middle finger on the brake lever, and really using the thumb and the crook at the base of the thumb to control the throttle. I've been working on using the pinky and ring finger for throttle control as well. I would say the hardest thing is making sure you're not changing the amount of brake pressure as your hand is blipping the throttle. Have to kind of let the finger tips slide across the brake lever without changing pressure. And you don't have to pull the clutch in all the way, just enough to disengage it. You can see that in the video.
I'll watch the video as soon as I can get some free time. Watched one of your videos and definitely looks like it takes a bit of practice to get it down. I don't know if the carpal tunnel is going to limit me. If it does I'll work on it after the surgery. Riding season is starting up here now and I don't really wanna miss 4-6 weeks at least resting and healing. Should have done it over the winter :banghead:
My wife doesn't understand why I like to be on the forum, but the information gathered and shared here is priceless. I've received tons of help and helped tons of people. This site and my school website are pretty much the only pages I go to online anymore. LOL! :rockon:
Ditto that. When I first started riding, I was all brakes and often ended up in the wrong gear, especially on turns. Now I down shift with my speed, and engine brake if slowing gradually. Good tip from MSF class is to slow a bit more than needed on turns, and roll on the throttle as you exit.
S
Schybrid
braking is very important, does ABS make that big of a deal ?
Do you remember when you could lock up your car tires and go hydroplaning into the back end of another car? ABS pretty much did away with that issue on cars. So, yeah ABS on motorcycles is getting better all the time and will become a standard feature in the future, its one of those background safety nets that will be nice to have - a panic stop on wet pavement with ABS could be the difference between a smashed up bike and injury, or just continuing on with your ride like nothing happened.
Thanks for the vote of confidence
The first time I really saw the technique in real time was in Keith Codes video Twist of The Wrist II. They show exactly how to do it. Here's a YouTube clip of it.
Twist.of.the.Wrist.II_mpeg4.avi - YouTube
Blipping is not something I've been able to do. It just seems my fingers aren't long enough to work it out.
Brock Kickass
New Member
decelerating, braking & gear braking
It's a heck of a lot more difficult than in a car
It's a heck of a lot more difficult than in a car
Brock Kickass
New Member
decelerating, braking & gear braking
It's a heck of a lot more difficult than in a car
It's a heck of a lot more difficult than in a car
I messed with it a little on my ride yesterday and hit some well. Other times I came to a stop still revving a little. Don't think I'll have enough control till after my carpal tunnel surgery.
S
Schybrid
ok regarding braking..........
What brakes are used for the following instances : (rear,front,both, and percentages ? ) ie......100% front, 50/50 front back, etc......
REGULAR BRAKING :
5mph ?
10 mph ?
20 mph ?
30 mph ?
40 mph ?
and so on up to say 70 mph ?
and then 100+ mph ?
QUICK BRAKING: (someone cuts you off, traveling same direction)
5mph ?
10 mph ?
20 mph ?
30 mph ?
40 mph ?
and so on up to say 70 mph ?
and then 100+ mph ?
PANIC BRAKING: (someone pulls out in front of you at intersection/road
5mph ?
10 mph ?
20 mph ?
30 mph ?
40 mph ?
and so on up to say 70 mph ?
and then 100+ mph ?
What brakes are used for the following instances : (rear,front,both, and percentages ? ) ie......100% front, 50/50 front back, etc......
REGULAR BRAKING :
5mph ?
10 mph ?
20 mph ?
30 mph ?
40 mph ?
and so on up to say 70 mph ?
and then 100+ mph ?
QUICK BRAKING: (someone cuts you off, traveling same direction)
5mph ?
10 mph ?
20 mph ?
30 mph ?
40 mph ?
and so on up to say 70 mph ?
and then 100+ mph ?
PANIC BRAKING: (someone pulls out in front of you at intersection/road
5mph ?
10 mph ?
20 mph ?
30 mph ?
40 mph ?
and so on up to say 70 mph ?
and then 100+ mph ?
It varies rider to rider. MSF will teach you to use both brakes evenly while simultaneously downshifting. Generally I apply both brakes slightly. Don't wanna slam either because you'll end up ass over elbow if you grab too much front brake and you'll likely lowside if you lock the rear. I don't find that either is overly touchy, but you wanna get a good feel for them at low speed. MSF teaches panic stopping by getting up to speed in 3rd gear and then the instructor throws up a hand to stop whenever he's ready. You have to get downshifted to 1st and have both feet on the ground and stopped in so many feet. Not sure the distance, but I had it down to a science when I went a few years ago. When stopping in a panic you will not likely have time to let out the clutch for engine braking. Shuffle through the gears down to 1st while braking as hard as your bike will allow. If in a straight line when speed is slow enough a little skid won't likely wreck you. Stopping though is mostly your front brake anyway (about 75% or so). So I'd say firm pressure on the front, light on the rear while engine braking through the gears. That is under daily driving circumstances at any speed. Well unless under 10-15mpg and then only front. As you'll see by responses everyone will vary. It takes some skill, general common sense, and lots of practice to brake and downshift smoothly. Luckily for most of us the 6R is very, very forgiving.
SurfJunkie
New Member
I do the " apply evenly while downshifting" if at all possible.
To much rear + clutch in = slide. Better to have the engine pulling the rear along IMO.
Ive found the easiest solution for rev matching is to hold the throttle about 5% open when downshifting.( EG: roll off, hold about 5%, clutch in and downshift while holding the 5% ) The down shift is then nice and smooth. Play with it a little till you find the butter zone. If you've got too much throttle it will jerk you a bit as noted earlier in the thread. Of course, i wouldn't worry about if it you are "oh shit" stopping.
To much rear + clutch in = slide. Better to have the engine pulling the rear along IMO.
Ive found the easiest solution for rev matching is to hold the throttle about 5% open when downshifting.( EG: roll off, hold about 5%, clutch in and downshift while holding the 5% ) The down shift is then nice and smooth. Play with it a little till you find the butter zone. If you've got too much throttle it will jerk you a bit as noted earlier in the thread. Of course, i wouldn't worry about if it you are "oh shit" stopping.
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