Cop Shoots & Paralyzes Unarmed Motorcyclist for Life at Traffic Stop...


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i'm not sure, but based on observation, currently the police seem to be trained to use deadly force if and when any type of physical threat is made on them- big or small.

the same type of thing that nlpyle described happened in Santa Monica where the cops shot a homeless guy with a knife too... actually, another case just happened in Korea town a month or so ago too, but it was an autistic or mentally disabled person who wouldn't stop when they asked him to- cuz he couldn't understand their commands.

maybe the police need a little more Jet Li & Jackie Chan and a little less Clint Eastwood? :p <lol> well, i dunno... i am j/k around. it takes years of disciplined training to be a skilled martial artist, but only a few weeks/ months to learn how to handle a firearm i suppose.

but, on the flip side when u see how vicious some criminals are nowadays, it's not difficult to understand why their [police] best defense is a strong offense sometimes... tho, this in no way justifies things...

society has gotten way too complicated and crimes have gotten more cruel and twisted. we all lose when these kind of things happen... :sigh: :mad:

nlpyle said:
... In Portland, OR our officers are shooting someone at least once a month. They shot and killed a homeless man coming out of the bathroom. The homeless man had a knife, but can you not use another way to disarm someone or can you find another way to resolve the issues rather then Grab Gun, Pull Trigger!...
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Detrich said:
i'm not sure, but based on observation, currently the police seem to be trained to use deadly force if and when any type of physical threat is made on them- big or small.

the same type of thing that nlpyle described happened in Santa Monica where the cops shot a homeless guy with a knife too... actually, another case just happened in Korea town a month or so ago too, but it was an autistic or mentally disabled person who wouldn't stop when they asked him to- cuz he couldn't understand their commands.

maybe the police need a little more Jet Li & Jackie Chan and a little less Clint Eastwood? :p <lol> well, i dunno... i am j/k around. it takes years of disciplined training to be a skilled martial artist, but only a few weeks/ months to learn how to handle a firearm i suppose.

but, on the flip side when u see how vicious some criminals are nowadays, it's not difficult to understand why their [police] best defense is a strong offense sometimes... tho, this in no way justifies things...

society has gotten way too complicated and crimes have gotten more cruel and twisted. we all lose when these kind of things happen... :sigh: :mad:
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I agree with you 95% except for the part about using martial arts and knife fights. Have you ever heard of the 21 feet knife rule? They have shown that someone with a knife can attack you faster than you can pull out your gun...less than 3 seconds. And, if you get your gun out AND get a shot off, you have to hope that it's instantly fatal (most likely not!!). SO, if you were confronted with a crazy homeless guy wielding a knife (who's probably high, drunk, mental unstable, and/or military veteran trained...) are you going to try and karate chop the knife from his hand or hope you have a tazer and it actually work on him, or just let him try and stab you. Personally, I'm going to bring a gun to a knife fight, because I'm here to win, not see who's man enough to fight. Cops aren't suppose to try and make it an equal fight.....that's highschool/bar fight crap. They work in the real world with crazy a$$ people out to hurt and kill them for the uniform they wear. So if your wielding a knife and the cops show up....put it down, whether your homeless, don't speak the language, or are just widdling out an FZ6R sculpture.

Remember, you (not YOU personally) have hours upon days to criticize the life or death actions that a police officer made, when they only have a split second to make that same decision! And, yes they are not always right, but neither are you....that's called being HUMAN. So, when ONE officer makes a big mistake, let's not blame every officer out there.

I'm still surprised no donut jokes yet. :D


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk59imFr6yI]YouTube - 21 Foot Rule Less Talk and More action (compiled and shortened)[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNhXKVnRvYw[/ame]
 
Really good points roaddog... I totally agree with u, which is y the jackie chan clint eastwood bit was made tongue-in-cheek, sorta say...

That said, that's an Indiana Jones classic. What happened with the last movie? It was SO bad compared to the classic IJ films...
 
take a chill pill, or two

OMG....

Well, we do have a PO on here, Bigevildoer... can offer some insight when he gets on...

but my two cents....

once you realize a cop has flashed you to pull over, and in this video and from the victims testimony he didn't get it right away, pull over, turn off the bike (so no need to clutch it) and PUT THE KICKSTAND DOWN. This lets the cop know you have now seen him and more than likely have no intention of running.
Take off your helmet... you will need to to talk to him/her anyway, and, it lets them know you are not reaching into you pocket/tank bag for a weapon.
Let them come to you, or to give you instructions... don't jump off the bike, sit and be patient.

This is obviously an isolated incident, not every cop who pulls you over is going to have his/her gun drawn, even at 2 am after you've ran away from them over and over.

In this case, wow. If I were the cop, and I had a guy with his back to me, and a 500lb piece of metal between his legs and he "turned oddly", I'd be well aware that even if he had a gun... even if... he'd have to be a magician to shoot me. We'll see where this case goes, but please remember, this is one incident, not the norm.
 
I'm a police officer going on 9 years now and from the video the officer did not have justification to use deadly force. If the officer thought the subject had a weapon he should have used verbal commands with his weapon drawn until the subject made an aggressive move or would not comply with commands to drop the weapon. it appeared the subject was watching his friend on the other motorcycle and just turned around to look towards the officer. It was a mistake on the officer's part and it one that both are going to have to live with. i just hope the man will not be paralyzed for good.
 
Detrich said:
i'm not sure, but based on observation, currently the police seem to be trained to use deadly force if and when any type of physical threat is made on them- big or small.

the same type of thing that nlpyle described happened in Santa Monica where the cops shot a homeless guy with a knife too... actually, another case just happened in Korea town a month or so ago too, but it was an autistic or mentally disabled person who wouldn't stop when they asked him to- cuz he couldn't understand their commands.

maybe the police need a little more Jet Li & Jackie Chan and a little less Clint Eastwood? :p <lol> well, i dunno... i am j/k around. it takes years of disciplined training to be a skilled martial artist, but only a few weeks/ months to learn how to handle a firearm i suppose.

but, on the flip side when u see how vicious some criminals are nowadays, it's not difficult to understand why their [police] best defense is a strong offense sometimes... tho, this in no way justifies things...

society has gotten way too complicated and crimes have gotten more cruel and twisted. we all lose when these kind of things happen... :sigh: :mad:
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I think that's a little to easy. My brother was a cop for 24+ some odd year ane we both were martial arls instructors. You never know what the guy your pulling over is going to do. But at least be prepared for nothing. Don't over react to nothing like this officer did. Providing this isn't the prevailing standard where he is.
 
Seems like it's been covered, but being this is my first bike and I haven't had any experience being pulled over (knock on wood!) I have been wondering about how to handle it. I agree that you should try to make the officers job easy. You only have to deal with him for 10-30 minutes of your day But he has to deal with people in your situation all day.

My procedure plan is to just pull into a well lit area and turn the bike off, put the kickstand down and stay facing front.
 
1. This was not a 'mistake' on the officers part, It was a premeditated crime. It's almost like the officer had made up his mind that he wanted to shoot the suspect.
2. Aiming for the spine from just about 10ft from the back in this scenario. There really is no excuse for that.

I really hope that this officer is set a good example of in the trial.
 
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I don't think the officer was out to just kill someone. i met and worked with few bad cops and never seen one who just wanted to kill random people. in a tense situation where a weapon maybe involved you have a fraction of a second to decided to pull the trigger or not. hesitate if the subject has a weapon and you could die.

Just like the video with the guy 21 feet away with the knife. We trained with this scenario at entry team training. The man can run up to you and kill you from 21 feet before you can draw your weapon and fire. it's nothing but the gap in your reaction time.

The officer should have had more training in tense situations and verbal commands.

There are people who should never be police officer due to being to scared to do the job. Being scared can cause people to get hurt or killed by the officer due to them being too scared to act or act prematurely and use deadly force before it is needed.
 
alucard0002002 said:
I don't think the officer was out to just kill someone. i met and worked with few bad cops and never seen one who just wanted to kill random people. in a tense situation where a weapon maybe involved you have a fraction of a second to decided to pull the trigger or not. hesitate if the subject has a weapon and you could die.

Just like the video with the guy 21 feet away with the knife. We trained with this scenario at entry team training. The man can run up to you and kill you from 21 feet before you can draw your weapon and fire. it's nothing but the gap in your reaction time.

The officer should have had more training in tense situations and verbal commands.

There are people who should never be police officer due to being to scared to do the job. Being scared can cause people to get hurt or killed by the officer due to them being too scared to act or act prematurely and use deadly force before it is needed.
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Seriously ? If the officer was busting a drug cartel or investigating a known criminal, yes I would agree. But, In the scenario ?
 
Don't get me wrong i think what the officer did was 100 percent wrong. I just think it was lack of training and the officer jumping the gun too soon instead of him premeditating to kill the guy.
 
Thanks alucard.

For everyone's benefit, would u also give us a brief run down of what the proper protocol should be when being pulled over on a motorcycle? We all kinda know what to do in a car. But, DMV & MSF never really told us for motorcycling...

Thanks again :)
 
When being stopped by law enforcement. After Pulling off road shut the motorcycle off, remove helmet if full faced stay seated and try to keep hand in view of the officer don't make any sudden movements.

During the daytime it's not much of an issue but at night in a dark area it can be hard to see hands you just notice the movements.

Most motorcycles that i've stopped i had no problem most stay seated and just remove helmet and wait on me. A couple have jumped off bike a soon as it was stopped and went to digging in saddle or tank bags that will make you wonder what your going for. But not all people act the same way.
 
Thanks for the advice, Alucard. Nice to have police officers on this forum and who are willing to throw in their viewpoint. You guys have a difficult job and this thread does not make things easier. In fact it's depressing. I'm heading over to the "What not to wear" forum where there is a picture of a couple girls in string bikinis riding a motorcycle. Is it appropriate riding gear? Who cares! It sure as hell is fun to look at and definitely NOT depressing.
Thanks again, A.
 
^ +1.... hehehehe =)
 
I understand a Police officers point of view and being 2AM BUT the victim was sitting still as he should have been besides glancing backwards as anyone might do. The Officer clearly opened fire as soon as he exited the vehicle. What should he have done? Clearly follow procedure telling the man to turn off the bike, if it were still on, then hold his hands up, get off the bike and step backwards. Instead he fired his gun on the victim and then yelled at him while the victims body lays underneath the 800lb motorcycle.

The cop should be tossed in with all the criminals and a sign handcuffed around his back saying "I am a police officer, I shot a man with his back turned to me.. I was wrong. Insert here ~~~> O" I have no tolerance for ignorance. I used to be a Trooper. You'd be surprised how many power hungry jerks are out there and do not receive the counselling that should be required.

My rants over... I'm entitled to my opinion on the subject but not on someone else's opinion.
 
bmw4422 said:
some may not like going under the seat for registration and insurance, but im sure they would appreciate you taking off your helmet right away.
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That helmet will protect your head if a car would hit you sitting on the side of the road. Would you take your seatbelt off as soon as you get pulled over in a car?
 
alucard0002002 said:
When being stopped by law enforcement. After Pulling off road shut the motorcycle off, remove helmet if full faced stay seated and try to keep hand in view of the officer don't make any sudden movements.

During the daytime it's not much of an issue but at night in a dark area it can be hard to see hands you just notice the movements.

Most motorcycles that i've stopped i had no problem most stay seated and just remove helmet and wait on me. A couple have jumped off bike a soon as it was stopped and went to digging in saddle or tank bags that will make you wonder what your going for. But not all people act the same way.
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My suggestion is that the police should stop making criminals out of people who are not criminals. There are enough bad guys out there; there is no need to harrass otherwise good people.

The prosecution of traffic crimes is an exercise in pure hypocrisy most of the time. Every cop I know brags about being able to violate traffic laws without consequence while off-duty, and they turn around and get paid with tax dollars to cite people (who paid their wages), for doing the very same things that they do.

Crap like this, where former officer White shot Mr. McCloskey, is what pisses off good citizens like most of the folks here, and someday the good guys will get fed up and will start shooting back.
 

Back To Reality said:
My suggestion is that the police should stop making criminals out of people who are not criminals. There are enough bad guys out there; there is no need to harrass otherwise good people.

The prosecution of traffic crimes is an exercise in pure hypocrisy most of the time. Every cop I know brags about being able to violate traffic laws without consequence while off-duty, and they turn around and get paid with tax dollars to cite people (who paid their wages), for doing the very same things that they do.

Crap like this, where former officer White shot Mr. McCloskey, is what pisses off good citizens like most of the folks here, and someday the good guys will get fed up and will start shooting back.
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So explain how you know the good guys from the bad guys?
 
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