New tires + gravel driveway= bad idea?

[iSpoolin]

Alright guys so here's the story.

This winter I stored my bike at my moms house. She lives on a hill, and the driveway is dirt/gravel.

I just put on a new set of Dunlop Q2's. Now i'm thinking it may not have been the best ideas since new tires are so slick. I usually just walk the bike down it so I don't think it'll be a huge deal, i'm just checking to see if anybody has had any experience with this kind of ordeal?

 

[JSP]

Will be fine. Thats actually the first thing I do when I get new tires is take it in dirt/gravel to help get the oils/shine off of them.

 

[iSpoolin]

Will be fine. Thats actually the first thing I do when I get new tires is take it in dirt/gravel to help get the oils/shine off of them.

Well then, maybe I need to just go up and down it repeatedly to break in the new tires? jk.

Thanks for the response Jay.

 

[alaskanflyboy]

I've taken my bike up and down my mother's drive way which is a good 35° angle on dirt for about 400 feet. It was definitely scary as hell, but I made it.

 

[Chevyfazer]

The only way gravel can hurt your tires is if you goose it spinning your tire in the gravel, it can and will put nice little cuts in your tread, I know from experience lol but luckily I run cheep tires because I abuse the piss out of them

 

[Spunky99]

LOL....

Those tires are so freaking sticky that they pick up rock bits like crazy.
I rolled the bike out of the garage and back in about 6 feet and my tires were covered in rock bits like the tires were covered in tar.

Slick they sure ain't.....

 

[txjames]

Alright guys so here's the story.

This winter I stored my bike at my moms house. She lives on a hill, and the driveway is dirt/gravel.

I just put on a new set of Dunlop Q2's. Now i'm thinking it may not have been the best ideas since new tires are so slick. I usually just walk the bike down it so I don't think it'll be a huge deal, i'm just checking to see if anybody has had any experience with this kind of ordeal?

I'm sure there are going to be some strong feelings on this "I had a friend who...." or "I saw a video on youtube...", but...

I'm really thinking this thing about new tire slickness is mostly myth. You know, like some "experienced" guys gets new tires and gets carried away pulling out of the dealer. Rather than blaming a spinout/highside on skill/judgement, it's easier to blame the tires.

Tire's aren't made like they were years ago. There are no mold-release agents used on motorcycle tires. Let me put it this way... new tires don't have a warning label. In our litigious society, I would have expected there to have been a lawsuit and a subsequent warning label if there really was a new-tire slickness issue.

When I bought my FZ6R (new), I rode it home at night in light rain on wet roads. Tires were not slick.

 

[Sparkxx1]

I'm sure there are going to be some strong feelings on this "I had a friend who...." or "I saw a video on youtube...", but...

I'm really thinking this thing about new tire slickness is mostly myth. You know, like some "experienced" guys gets new tires and gets carried away pulling out of the dealer. Rather than blaming a spinout/highside on skill/judgement, it's easier to blame the tires.

Tire's aren't made like they were years ago. There are no mold-release agents used on motorcycle tires. Let me put it this way... new tires don't have a warning label. In our litigious society, I would have expected there to have been a lawsuit and a subsequent warning label if there really was a new-tire slickness issue.

When I bought my FZ6R (new), I rode it home at night in light rain on wet roads. Tires were not slick.

Most certainly not a myth, companies use products on the tire to make sure they don't dry out or otherwise break down while being stored. Some tires might go months without being sold so the heating and cooling can wear them down. If you take a look at the sides of your tire you can see a strip of film on both sides where you haven't use tread. That part will still be slick compared to the center of your tire.

 

[Chevyfazer]

I'm sure there are going to be some strong feelings on this "I had a friend who...." or "I saw a video on youtube...", but...

I'm really thinking this thing about new tire slickness is mostly myth. You know, like some "experienced" guys gets new tires and gets carried away pulling out of the dealer. Rather than blaming a spinout/highside on skill/judgement, it's easier to blame the tires.

Tire's aren't made like they were years ago. There are no mold-release agents used on motorcycle tires. Let me put it this way... new tires don't have a warning label. In our litigious society, I would have expected there to have been a lawsuit and a subsequent warning label if there really was a new-tire slickness issue.

When I bought my FZ6R (new), I rode it home at night in light rain on wet roads. Tires were not slick.

If you keep believing that you will end up in the dirt the first time you try to push your bike hard on some new tires. It's certainly not a myth or old wise tail, and they don't put warnings on them because as long as you don't push it hard on fresh tires you will be fine. But if you don't believe it then go to a place that has some new tires and just rub your hand on them and feel how slick they are, then feel your tire on your bike, BIG difference!!! And that slickness don't just magically go away once they are mounted on your bike.

 

[iSpoolin]

If you keep believing that you will end up in the dirt the first time you try to push your bike hard on some new tires. It's certainly not a myth or old wise tail, and they don't put warnings on them because as long as you don't push it hard on fresh tires you will be fine. But if you don't believe it then go to a place that has some new tires and just rub your hand on them and feel how slick they are, then feel your tire on your bike, BIG difference!!! And that slickness don't just magically go away once they are mounted on your bike.

He's correct in the fact that they don't use the mold releasing agents anymore. However they still put a coat of some form of wax on the tires. Which is very slick indeed.

Also, the whole scrubbing in tires thing isn't JUST for the waxy residue, it's for the fact that they say it takes a few miles to truly have the tire seated on the wheel as well.

 

[Chevyfazer]

He's correct in the fact that they don't use the mold releasing agents anymore. However they still put a coat of some form of wax on the tires. Which is very slick indeed.

Also, the whole scrubbing in tires thing isn't JUST for the waxy residue, it's for the fact that they say it takes a few miles to truly have the tire seated on the wheel as well.

I think some manufactures still do on some of their tires but yes most of them don't I was mainly getting at not believing that new tires are slick in general, and pretty much thinking that you can put some new rubber on and go hit up deals gap with no issues.

 

[Spunky99]

Here is an interesting development....

So I put the Dunlop Q2 tires on my bike and had 38 rear and 36 front psi.
Really felt sticky but I rode it like it was slick as snot and careful to 66 miles of which 50 were freeway. I bumped the pressure to 40 rear and 38 front and boy o' boy did they get slick.

So I'm probably going to stay on track with careful break in of the tires until at least 100 miles but I'm going to run them at 38/36 from now on.

 

[txjames]

Most certainly not a myth, companies use products on the tire to make sure they don't dry out or otherwise break down while being stored. Some tires might go months without being sold so the heating and cooling can wear them down. If you take a look at the sides of your tire you can see a strip of film on both sides where you haven't use tread. That part will still be slick compared to the center of your tire.

If you keep believing that you will end up in the dirt the first time you try to push your bike hard on some new tires. It's certainly not a myth or old wise tail, and they don't put warnings on them because as long as you don't push it hard on fresh tires you will be fine. But if you don't believe it then go to a place that has some new tires and just rub your hand on them and feel how slick they are, then feel your tire on your bike, BIG difference!!! And that slickness don't just magically go away once they are mounted on your bike.

He's correct in the fact that they don't use the mold releasing agents anymore. However they still put a coat of some form of wax on the tires. Which is very slick indeed.

Also, the whole scrubbing in tires thing isn't JUST for the waxy residue, it's for the fact that they say it takes a few miles to truly have the tire seated on the wheel as well.

I appreciate it, but I'm going to say those new-tire spins are because the tires were cold, not new.

Few aspects of riding technique are as clouded with the dark specter of myths, old information-or just plain bad information-than how to warm up new tires. In fact, many of us, me included, still use the misleading terminology of "scrubbing" in new tires, which wrongly implies that the surface of the tire itself needs to be scrubbed or abraded to offer traction. While this may have been the case long ago when manufacturers used a mold release compound, it most definitely is not the case today.

To clear up the issue of how to ride on new tires, we cornered Cristoph Knoche, the Racing Manager for Pirelli Tire North America's Motorcycle Division. Knoche has been with Pirelli for 13 years, working with the company's R&D department while involved with World Supersport, where Pirelli won the World Championship with Fabien Foret while battling against the other brands prior to the series adopting Pirelli as the spec tire for World Supersport and World Superbike. More than just a racetrack technician, Knoche also has first-hand experience with the prototyping process and development of special racing tires.

First off, Knoche quickly dispatched the old wives' tale that the surface of the tire needs to be scuffed or roughed up to offer grip. "Maybe it's coming from the old days when people were spraying mold release on the tread when the molds were maybe not that precise," Knoche speculates, "and the machinery was not that precise. But nowadays molds are typically coated with Teflon or other surface treatments. The release you put in there (in the sidewall area only, not the tread) is for like baking a cake, you know, so that it fills all the little corners and today that is done more mechanically than by spraying. The sidewall is important because you have all the engraving in the sidewall [with tire size, inflation pressure and certifications] and that you want to look nicely on your tire, so that's why we still spray the mold release there."

Okay... so in short he just answered both sides, first by calling it an old wives tale and then the other side by admitting they use a mold release on the sidewall (which I would think could get on the contact patch)​

The next myth we see perpetuated nearly every time we watch the warm-up lap to a race. Riders begin weaving back and forth in apparent attempt to scuff the tread surface (which we've already discounted) and generate heat. The reality is that, according to every tire engineer that I've asked, there are far more effective ways of generating heat in a tire that are also much safer. Rather than weaving back and forth-which does little in the way of generating heat but does put you at risk asking for cornering grip from tires before they're up to temperature-you're far better off using strong acceleration and braking forces, and using them while upright, not leaned over! Acceleration and braking forces impart far more flex to the tire carcass, which is what generates the heat that then transfers to the tread compound as well (you often see Formula 1 cars weaving violently back and forth because automobile tires operate on a horizontal plane, so they have and use significant sidewall flex to generate heat).

All I can say is that you should trust the educated opinion of tire engineers over the old habits and superstitions of even the best racers. That said, I still-out of habit-occasionally catch myself weaving out of the pits on fresh rubber before chastising myself and then applying heavy yet smooth acceleration and braking forces into the tire while keeping the bike relatively upright.

If you're a racer, or a serious enough track-day rider to have tire warmers, Knoche recommends that you have them on the bike for a full hour to get not only the tread surface of the tire, but also the entire carcass and sidewall section, up to temperature as well. "With modern compounds," Knoche explains, "there are a lot of waxes and oils and (we) have to get them really to temperature. We suggest to get them up to around 165 degrees Fahrenheit. Because what happens is you have to warm your tire not only on the surface but what we look for is touching the wheel and you want that a little bit more than hand warm."




In addition to warming tires up before the session, Knoche also recommends that riders coming off the track get the warmers back on to prevent the tires from cooling and going through another heat cycle. "Even with the tire on the warmer all the time," warns Knoche, "it takes about two laps to get to the good compound underneath, a little bit."

It should be noted, as well, that unlike many tire brands that give suggested cold tire pressures, Pirelli prefers to set tire pressures after the tire is up to temperature (165 degrees F on a warmer or after 10 minutes of lapping the track). Knoche says that pressures vary slightly depending on track conditions and rider preference but that the Pirelli engineers prefer to run from 32 to 34 psi in the front and from 28 to 30 psi rear. They like to see between a 3 to five pound rise in pressure from the initial cold tire to one at 165 degrees or above.

It might follow that suggested cold tire pressures would start 3 psi below the pressure listed above, but Knoche wasn't comfortable making that suggestion. Instead, he recommends, as many tire engineers do, that riders, "contact our technical support people."

Many years ago I recall a coworker at Motorcyclist magazine telling me that it could take as much as 100 miles for a tire to truly break in and offer good traction. I doubted that it was true then and it certainly isn't true today. Knoche reaffirms that there's no need to believe that old myth that often left typical street riders riding away from the dealership on new tires literally white-knuckled with fear of the "treacherously slippery" tires.

"I would say nowadays if the surface looks like new-as long as you don't have contact cleaner on, no soapy water (often used by tire fitters to help slip the bead over the rim) or oil-there should be no concern," said Knoche. But that isn't clearance to simply go for it, either. "For sure a new tire, especially if you change the brand or even get a different production lot, it can be slightly different," Knoche said. "So I think that's more the concern people should have. Maybe with a new set of tires that's a new experience. Get the experience; it's like riding in a brand new car, you don't race around the first corner because you don't know what's going to happen."

Finally, there is the aspect of using race tires on the street. Interestingly, Knoche says Pirelli's street and DOT race tires should come up to temperature equally quickly and at no time does the race compound offer less traction than that of the street tire. However, this is not a statement that we feel can be safely applied to all brands of tires, as we've heard differently from tire engineers (not marketing managers) from other companies regarding their specific brand. Regardless, there are plenty of other reasons not to run modern DOT race tires on the street, not the least of which is tread life that can be as short as 300 miles of aggressive riding! That's a cost of well over $1.00 per mile. Such are the compromises required to run at the front of the pack in AMA Pro Racing competition.

"That's why we developed the Diablo Corsa III," said Knoche. " This tire has, in the rear, three compound sections. The center is a street compound but on the side you have about one and half inch, probably, of our race compound, which gives you a little bit more fun." Take a look at any competitive DOT race tire and you'll note the scarcity of tread grooves in general and the total lack of them anywhere near the edge, or shoulder, of the tread. Even for track day riders that may face damp or wet riding conditions without the luxury of a spare set of wheels with wet weather tires mounted up, Knoche recommends the equivalent of Pirelli Diablo Corse IIIs, "so that we don't have to change to intermediate or rain tires because they're designed for the street.

 

[Chevyfazer]

Did you read the line where he said " even with the tire on the warmer all the time it still takes about 2 good laps to get to the good compound"

In that quote he is talking about a soft compound race tire, and he clearly is saying that the tire has better traction after the first 2 laps even with the tire up to temp from the start. Now if it takes 2 laps around your average track on a soft race tire where you would be lucky to get 300miles on a set, what do you think that translates too on a street tire while not pushing half as hard as pro riders?

Obviously you are not going to change your mind, just be smart about a new set of tires and how hard you ride on them. And obviously you are a new rider and have not yet learned the limits of your bike, tires, or yourself yet and it will come in due time, just don't learn the hard way...