Metzeler Z8 Interacts review

[adamo3957]

Copy and pasted from another forum I frequent (I did write it though)

Quick preliminary review of the new Metzeler Z8 tyres I had fitted...

I'm a daily commuter/occasional track day rider and will try to update this as and when they get put through a new test or my thoughts on them change.

I also went against the tried an tested Pilot Roads because whilst everyone likes them, I wanted something different, I figured it as a chance to mix it up and see if any other brands/tyres delivered the same results. From the interwebz the reviews all point out that Metzeler obviously were targeting the Pilot Road 3's in the development in these tyres, and whilst having not tried the PR3's it looked like a good starting point.

Thoughts after the first 2 days.

These are primarily designed as a wet weather tyre and they do deliver on that so far. It was greasy and wet when I took these out to break in, after finding my usual test area I tried the usual e-stop test to try and get a feel for slip, the rear grips well but can be pushed to slip if you really ask it too, the front after a couple of runs building up the balls stayed grippy enough to lift the rear through a puddle (Literally stoppies through puddles). So I then put them through so moderate paced twisties, again grip was impressive, after a bit of bedding in the rear didn't slip even when trying to gently to get it going. They seem to take a short while to warm up (1-2 turns), but so far they are delivering on everything promised.

After 5 days.

These Tyres are impressing me...

Cold grip is really confidence building. Even over block paving they just let you lean in without worries... there's no doubts in grip, I'm not scraping pegs on my way out of the estate because that's not my thing (and every junctions block paved) but you just go out on a reasonable lean and they grip... Earlier in the week I made an error in my line causing me to run over a raised man hole, coming off the manhole with the rear being in the air while lent over I was expecting the worst, what I got was the tyre biting perfectly on landing, letting me remain in complete control and safely staying on the bike.

I'm seriously tempted to take these for a wet session at barbs. through the rain, or any damp roads, these are the best tyres I've had since a full wet race tyre straight off tyre warmers at Snetterton...

I do have slight doubts on how they will hold up under hard cornering/braking on a warm day as I'm yet to try it out, but that's a trait of all wet tyres. But if grip stays on a similar level to what's currently there I'm going to be one happy camper...

 

[Marthy]

After I had 2 wheel spin in the wet with the Conti-Motion on the FZ09 I dig out some info and the PR4 was high on the list and review but the Angle GT was the one that won side by side test.

After a track day in the wet. It wasn't pouring but the track was wet all evening with water flowing over the track. Kind of wet/dry a bit everywhere. The Angle GT were pretty solid. The only few time I felt the bike drifting a bit was exiting corners on the gas. It was very predictable and even on the dry part of the track I was able to keep up with almost anyone.

Still want to learn more about your experience with your tires.


Motorrad declares Pirelli Angel GT the best sport touring tyre

 

[adamo3957]

After a track day in the wet. It wasn't pouring but the track was wet all evening with water flowing over the track. Kind of wet/dry a bit everywhere. The Angle GT were pretty solid. The only few time I felt the bike drifting a bit was exiting corners on the gas. It was very predictable and even on the dry part of the track I was able to keep up with almost anyone.

Question Marthy,

Do you rock up and ride? Or do you have the ability to take tyre warmers etc... with you?

If I had a full fleet of equipment, and unlimited tyres you'd find me out in the morning on a damp track with wet track tyres...

Wet track tyres on a wet track is like riding in the dry, I kid you not... they literally have no competition, however they come with a price. Once the track starts to dry out, they're done, They'll wear at an alarming increasing rate, and grip is reduced, you'll find yourself searching for damp track for better grip.

That's when I'd come in and change to slicks, or a cut slick if I was out. Once that dry line starts to form (provided it's not going to rain) you'll find the slicks will hold out fine.



But if you're like me and can't take that plethora of gear and you're limited to road tyres, and no tyre warmers then you'll find yourself in the situation I'm in these days...

Any Road tyre isn't really going to handle more than 1-2 track days safely (That is for fast riding) Heat cycles will kill it before the tread is gone... (I honestly don't know how much you know on heat cycling but I've included one of my earlier posts on general tyre wear below as an extra)

Incase you haven't known about heat cycles in tyres, next time you go racing have a look at your tyres/the race guys tyres, you'll notice a blue banding on them, it's hard to describe but the tyre looks like the blue you get from heated steal...

If you're running without tyre warmers you'll be heat cycling your tyre's anything up to 7 times in one day, when you consider pure track tyres are designed around 2-3 heat cycles.

So that leave's you with soft road tyres, and well... they can be a bit poor once you've experienced a full track set up...

I'm honestly considering buying myself a tyre changer and buying second hand tyres from the racers for summer, otherwise you'll probably find me changing these out after the first track day. They'll most likely be fine under daily riding, but to get 2 track days out of these tyres will be difficult without loosing pace. (Keep in mind I run 68 seconds on a quick lap on road tyres with room to spare, the guys on 600ss on race set-ups lap 60-62, and the thou ss run 59-61 lap times)

Tyre wear occurs in different ways depending on the riding.

Light road riding - little tears (these tears are actually from the tyre biting into the asphalt).

Hard road riding - little knurling starts to appear. (You'll see the rubber has been starting to melt and form little bobbles)

Light Track riding, road tyres - as per hard road riding.

Hard track riding, road tyres - again light knurling appearing, also you'll notice a blueish tinge/band appear on the edges of the tyre, this is where heat cycling is taking effect.

Light track, track tyre - as per hard track road tyres, take note of that blue band appear. track tyres also wear in heat cycles, this is the real reason for tyre warmers. 6 heat cycles are the normal before considering disposal or selling for road... (this is monitored with tread wear and each rider makes his own decision.)

Hard track, Track tyre - This is wear they look awesome. tyres ripple and are left with imprints of the tarmac. At this level your running slicks and replacing tyres after 2-3 track days at best, you're eating rubber, and running lower tyre pressures for bigger contact patches, I'm talking 22-24 psi, you can't run this gear on the road. This is dedicated track/race level gear.


A note on heat cycle's.

What is a heat cycle?

Well as rubber is heated and cooled repeatedly, it hardens. To hard and no grip.

If you go out for a session, and come back in without using tyre warmers, consider that one heat cycle. The tyre will now be cold when you next go out, and once it's warmed up your on the next heat cycle.

If you come in, and put the tyre warmers back on, you keep the tyre's hot, so they are still on the same cycle, and they are grippy on that first lap out, even better .

 

[Rob]

i appreciate the input Adamo. I'm currently looking for a new set of tires. I saw on Revzilla's site the Metzeler Sportec M5 Interact tire. Even though they've been around for a long time I'm a little apprehensive to buy Metzeler since it doesn't seem to be a brand I've seen talked about much on this forum. I currently have the stock tires, Dunlop Roadsmarts. For my next set I want something that is a little less economical and sacrifices a bit of mileage so that I can experience something that really grips the road better on cornering. It seemed from that sites review that the K8 was more for commuting which is why I didn't pay much attention to them and focused more on the M5. Would you say the K8 tire was a noticeable improvement in that department from your stock tires? The bike is my only vehicle, however where I live there aren't many twists and turns and it's flat. So even though I ride almost daily, i'm mostly doing city driving and going straight. But I don't want another economical tire that is just like my Roadsmarts. I want something that is dual compound or similar and slightly more geared towards a track day application even though I probably won't do a track day any time soon.

The pilot power 3, pirelli diablo rosso 2, bridgestone S20, and bridgestone bt-023 are the other tires that I was looking at closely. A little lost since I've only ever purchased one other motorcycle tire. And that was just a stock replacement for my '08 ninja 250 a couple years ago.

 

[adamo3957]

I've split this into multiple questions and I'll try to keep each part relevant

I saw on Revzilla's site the Metzeler Sportec M5 Interact tire. Even though they've been around for a long time I'm a little apprehensive to buy Metzeler since it doesn't seem to be a brand I've seen talked about much on this forum.

Simply put, Metzeler are a German brand, they've been around a while, but never been particularly popular out side of Europe, don't know why, just are like that...

Also Metzeler in the early to mid 2000's had a reputation for being slippery in the wet. When I was racing I would always go Metzeler for dry tyres, but not for wets... But tyre tech moves quickly and I wanted to see how they've improved, hence me trying them this time.

I currently have the stock tires, Dunlop Roadsmarts.

I'm the odd ball of the forum... The Roadsmarts were an ok tyre, but most newer gen tyres are going to perform better.

For my next set I want something that is a little less economical and sacrifices a bit of mileage so that I can experience something that really grips the road better on cornering.

Did you crash? Did you slip? Always remember not to blame your gear... You as a rider have to learn, grow, and develop feel for what your tyre is doing. Sounds mean but detailed analysis on what you feel about your tyres will give you the directions for your next choice.

If a the maximum grip required to hold your bike up in the corner is X, buying a tyre capable of holding double that is wasted money... the factors that should be considered in choosing tyres isn't maximum grip possible.
You need to balance your choice between -

• Tyre design operating conditions (Track vs street, Summer vs Winter, Wet vs Dry)
• Tyre life (It's always a factor)
• $$$
• Usage
• Brand prefference (People do preffer differing feedback levels from tyres)

It seemed from that sites review that the K8 was more for commuting which is why I didn't pay much attention to them and focused more on the M5.

I'm guessing you mean Z8? I'm going to assume you do...

The Z8 is a sport touring tyre
The M5 is a sport/occasional track day tyre
The K3 is Race/Track day tyre

Again, this will be a case of balancing your needs, there is no 1 size fits all tyre (otherwise we'd all use it).

The M5 will be better if you have alot of twisties near you, or if you frequently took to the track, remember it's a soft rubber compound designed for dry weather grip operating under hard cornering... from what you've said you don't do these things...

No.1 focus of a tyre is to perform when you need it most. 99% of the time on the road you need it to work when it's just been raining, it was a late day at work, your tired, and a cars just pulled out in front of you...

Would you say the K8 tire was a noticeable improvement in that department from your stock tires?

Yes

The bike is my only vehicle, however where I live there aren't many twists and turns and it's flat. So even though I ride almost daily, i'm mostly doing city driving and going straight. But I don't want another economical tire that is just like my Roadsmarts. I want something that is dual compound or similar and slightly more geared towards a track day application even though I probably won't do a track day any time soon.

Again, A track tyre is not as good as a road tyre on a road without the warm-up required...

It's like race brakes, they have better grip the hotter they get, but for an emergency stop when cold... well then they won't stop you...

The pilot power 3, pirelli diablo rosso 2, bridgestone S20, and bridgestone bt-023 are the other tires that I was looking at closely. A little lost since I've only ever purchased one other motorcycle tire. And that was just a stock replacement for my '08 ninja 250 a couple years ago.

We all start somewhere...

I can't really compare all those tyres and tell you what's best because I'm recently getting back into all these... So I haven't really tested them all, I'd loose the s20 off the list and add the pilot road 4s to the list, but balance up how often/frequent rain is in your area, and also remember you'll be drawing to the end of summer soon, so remember the winter properties of the tyre you choose.

I'd choose what you can get the best deal on, try that, and try another brand next time. You'll start to learn what you like and then you can guide yourself from there.

 

[Marthy]

Hey Mate,

I didn't use tire warmer. It was my first track day and the whole concept of dong a track day was to improve my street riding, not trying to put down a qualification lap.

I agree that slick or race purpose tires are very sensitive to heat cycle or mileage. Typical tire will built up grip as you scrub them and usually peak within 2-3 laps then fall off a bit and stay pretty stable until the end of it's life. That's if you don't cook them and keep them within the heat range they are design for / good suspension settings.

On street shoes I read in few place that the grip level is reduce as you wear off the tire more than anything. I have nothing to back that up from personal experience but for the GP (general public) most of us are using about 80% of what the bike/tire combo can get. So if the tires loose 3-8% efficiency through its life time most of us won't even notice unless you do a track day and have enough skills to get there.

I'm relatively a bit green in the motorcycle world but been involve in amateur & pro racing for around 25 years, seen and done it all. LOL 95% of the concept applies. I did my track day at PBIR. Nice technical track with a 1/4 mile long straightway (out of a 3rd gear corner) ST tires were fine for that track since pretty much all corners are 2-3rd gear. Planning on doing Homestead RC next month... planning on getting proper shoes to go there also. Very fast track with heavy breaking and fast turn. I did dump $500.00 on front rotors & pads too.

 

[adamo3957]

Hey Mate,

I didn't use tire warmer. It was my first track day and the whole concept of dong a track day was to improve my street riding, not trying to put down a qualification lap.

Fair enough, If you find yourself frequently visiting the track I'd swap the tyres for something slightly more track oriented, but for primarily road use and occasional track the angels will cope fine.

I agree that slick or race purpose tires are very sensitive to heat cycle or mileage. Typical tire will built up grip as you scrub them and usually peak within 2-3 laps then fall off a bit and stay pretty stable until the end of it's life. That's if you don't cook them and keep them within the heat range they are design for / good suspension settings.

Agree'd and most people on FZ6Rs and the like aren't in the range capable of pushing a tyre to that sort of limit... It took me a while to be back in the form of things to be able to achieve what I consider a fast lap.

On street shoes I read in few place that the grip level is reduce as you wear off the tire more than anything. I have nothing to back that up from personal experience but for the GP (general public) most of us are using about 80% of what the bike/tire combo can get. So if the tires loose 3-8% efficiency through its life time most of us won't even notice unless you do a track day and have enough skills to get there.

My experience has been the opposite to an extent...

I agree after the settling period grip does reduce, but beyond 60-70% wear the grip starts to increase again. This is mostly due to tyre's requiring a softer compound to bond to the steel belts. However at that point you find the rubber begins to heat excessively even at a lower pace, and wear rates start to increase. Post wear markings on the tyre you'll find exponential increases in tyre wear due to compounds changing and grip decreases again.

I'm relatively a bit green in the motorcycle world but been involve in amateur & pro racing for around 25 years, seen and done it all. LOL 95% of the concept applies. I did my track day at PBIR. Nice technical track with a 1/4 mile long straightway (out of a 3rd gear corner) ST tires were fine for that track since pretty much all corners are 2-3rd gear. Planning on doing Homestead RC next month... planning on getting proper shoes to go there also. Very fast track with heavy breaking and fast turn. I did dump $500.00 on front rotors & pads too.

Barbagallo is the local track here in WA, which is the main track we all go to... It's a very fast short track with lots of positive camber, and it's all right turns barring one corner...

Collie is the other track in the area, which is probably closer to the track you went to, technical, lower speeds, I'm yet to go to that one... (But I will).

If you do decide to go extreme on the FZ09 mods please don't do a Buell and try to lower the centre of gravity, High centre = faster leans... I'm sure you've worked that out already though.

My recommendations for anyone wanting to get fast at the track is to master smooth transitions from 0-30% throttle, as it will be key for running later on the brakes and trailing in to the corner, It's not braking into the corner that causes crashes, it's poor throttle management into maintenance mid corner...

But yeah, heat cycling on tyres is probably more than most riders are going to get into, however I go to the track specifically to go fast, so when I do push it does matter to me...