Having a problem downshifting...

[Fzara2000]

Well, today I was approaching a ramp on the right to get onto the highway and I braked and waited to downshift at the very last second...I panicked and wasn't able to get into the proper gear.

It seems that I am having a very hard time downshifting while braking. Is it truly necessary to blip the throttle on my downshifts while braking at the same time?
Or should I just downshift and brake and not worry about giving it gas?

 

[krzysiopl]

well no, it should be easy as hell. When im too lazy to clutch it, i wish up and down without any problems (2nd gear and up that is, never between 1st & 2nd). I do hit the throttle just slightly when shifting down without a clutch, but if you clutch it i wouldnt worry about reving up at all. Hope that helps a bit.

ALSO...remember if you have any problems...clutch it... clutch is ur friend and lover!

 

[Sage]

You don't rev what so ever when you are shifting down if you use a clutch, when you clutch back out you need to match the rpm or clutch out slowly while your braking so you don't make the front dive and do that sudden speed drop which will scare you even more the first time than getting into the correct gear

 

[MikeN02]

Well, today I was approaching a ramp on the right to get onto the highway and I braked and waited to downshift at the very last second...I panicked and wasn't able to get into the proper gear.

It seems that I am having a very hard time downshifting while braking. Is it truly necessary to blip the throttle on my downshifts while braking at the same time?
Or should I just downshift and brake and not worry about giving it gas?

I normally use the front brake now. Apparently a lot of people use it and only use the rear rarely. This is true for me because I've locked up my rear more than my front even though the front has more stopping power I can "feel" better with my hands then stepping on the levers for the amount of pressure.

So while doing a "yield" for the on ramps I slow down by pulling in the clutch, downshifting and applying the brakes (about 25 mph or so) then I take off while in 2nd.


So, I would downshift and brake not worry about giving it gas ONLY if you're going low speeds. But in high speeds you need to watch your speed and remember if you can downshift. Then downshift and "rev match" (giving it a bit of gas so the RPM's are high while in that gear). Otherwise you'll have a tank slapper.

First time downshifting to first while first can't handle that speed was when I was in a turn/lean and it freaked me out. Luckily I didn't go down.

 

[MikeN02]

You don't rev what so ever when you are shifting down if you use a clutch, when you clutch back out you need to match the rpm or clutch out slowly while your braking so you don't make the front dive and do that sudden speed drop which will scare you even more the first time than getting into the correct gear

You do rev match while down shifting in certain situations like you're on the freeway in 2nd or 3rd and you want to "gun it" through the gears which would be a faster acceleration then twisting the throttle all the way while in 6th.

 

[Sage]

You do rev match while down shifting in certain situations like you're on the freeway in 2nd or 3rd and you want to "gun it" through the gears which would be a faster acceleration then twisting the throttle all the way while in 6th.

yea my wording and explaination is horrible and is countradictive of its self lol. And I was taking his "blip the throttle" as in you have to blip it while downshifting to get it into gear.

Listen to what Mike says, he explain's better than I do

 

[MikeN02]

yea my wording and explaination is horrible and is countradictive of its self lol. And I was taking his "blip the throttle" as in you have to blip it while downshifting to get it into gear.

Listen to what Mike says, he explain's better than I do

Yeah I used to do that as a newbie lol. Usually if people don't get my explanation I do a drawing but I can't in this case.

Just don't try to accelerate from 4 or 5 mph while in a high gear

 

[SAFE-T]

But in high speeds you need to watch your speed and remember if you can downshift....Otherwise you'll have a tank slapper.

Or you might break the turboencapsulator

 

[Deanohh]

Downshift one gear at a time while you are slowing down. Don't wait till you're going real slow and then try to shift down several gears at the same time..... thats not going to work on any bike. If you rev match a least a little bit as you shift down (or up), your shifts and clutch release will get a lot smoother and as you ride more your skill at this will get better.

 

[Fzara2000]

I normally use the front brake now. Apparently a lot of people use it and only use the rear rarely. This is true for me because I've locked up my rear more than my front even though the front has more stopping power I can "feel" better with my hands then stepping on the levers for the amount of pressure.

So while doing a "yield" for the on ramps I slow down by pulling in the clutch, downshifting and applying the brakes (about 25 mph or so) then I take off while in 2nd.


So, I would downshift and brake not worry about giving it gas ONLY if you're going low speeds. But in high speeds you need to watch your speed and remember if you can downshift. Then downshift and "rev match" (giving it a bit of gas so the RPM's are high while in that gear). Otherwise you'll have a tank slapper.

First time downshifting to first while first can't handle that speed was when I was in a turn/lean and it freaked me out. Luckily I didn't go down.

Gotcha. Just to clarify, I was trying to downshift, blip, and brake at the same time from 3rd to 2nd on a local road (speed limit 45 mph, but the on-ramp was sharp and filled with potholes).

I know how to blip (its getting easier and easier now) but I was so used to doing everything all at once which I think is what really confused me.

 

[SAFE-T]

You don't rev what so ever when you are shifting down if you use a clutch, when you clutch back out you need to match the rpm or clutch out slowly while your braking so you don't make the front dive and do that sudden speed drop which will scare you even more the first time than getting into the correct gear

Both you and Mike need to read some books before you give out more advice.

:shakehead:

Downshifting works like this:

Throttle Off
Clutch In
Blip Throttle (optional)*
Clutch Out
Throttle On

You want to select the proper gear and speed for the corner in advance of getting there. Do this either by rolling off the throttle and slowing down using the engine compression braking of the motor, or your brakes (properly) and then changing gears if you have to.

A small application (blip) of the throttle is not usually necessary if you are slowing down normally, and your engine is in the lower rpm range. At higher speeds and higher rpm your engine has more compression braking than at lower rpm. Shifting down from a higher gear at high speed without matching the rpm's of the motor to the lower gear being selected may mean your motor's compression braking may temporarily overpower the traction of your rear wheel and cause it to slide.

Different motors have different characteristics in this regard, which is why 500cc 2-stroke Gran Prix riders did not have to blip the throttle when downshifting, and why the 'slipper clutch' was introduced.

Slipper clutch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The downshift from 2nd to 1st is the longest throw in your motorcycle's gearbox. Leaving it to the last moment is asking for trouble.

 

[SAFE-T]

Here is some recommended reading for those of you that could use it. That would be everyone.

Total Control: High-Performance Street Riding Techniques by Lee Parks - Motorcycle Safety Books - webBikeWorld

Sport Riding Techniques by Nick Ienatsch - webBikeWorld

The Pace - Nick Ienatsch - Motorcyclist magazine

 

[SAFE-T]

I know how to blip but I was so used to doing everything all at once which I think is what really confused me.

This is why everyone who street rides should read The Pace.

And watch this video:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VruWHHEnZGw]YouTube - Mick Doohan - No Place to Race[/ame]

I once got into a bit of a protracted discussion with someone on another board who thought that, with enough practice, ABS was unnecessary since you could eventually reach a level of infallibility in your braking skills if you had enough training.

While I think it's great to challenge yourself, developing a god complex because you think you are just so incredibly awesome is dangerous. And the purpose of ABS is not to replace threshold braking in the first place, but to make it possible to stop in conditions (including physical, environmental and mental) beyond the normal limits of the average rider.

I'd be the first to admit that a really good corner with just the right application of front and rear brake, trail breaking into the apex, holding constant throttle until the exit then revving up through the gears makes a body feel good.

But in this case, the added environmental hazards of the open road were simply too much. Maybe you just got a little complacent at the wrong time. Maybe you just need to back it down a notch for now. At any rate you got a life lesson and are trying to learn from it.

:thumbup:

 

[Sage]

Both you and Mike need to read some books before you give out more advice.

:shakehead:

Downshifting works like this:

Throttle Off
Clutch In
Blip Throttle (optional)*
Clutch Out
Throttle On

You want to select the proper gear and speed for the corner in advance of getting there. Do this either by rolling off the throttle and slowing down using the engine compression braking of the motor, or your brakes (properly) and then changing gears if you have to.

A small application (blip) of the throttle is not usually necessary if you are slowing down normally, and your engine is in the lower rpm range. At higher speeds and higher rpm your engine has more compression braking than at lower rpm. Shifting down from a higher gear at high speed without matching the rpm's of the motor to the lower gear being selected may mean your motor's compression braking may temporarily overpower the traction of your rear wheel and cause it to slide.

Different motors have different characteristics in this regard, which is why 500cc 2-stroke Gran Prix riders did not have to blip the throttle when downshifting, and why the 'slipper clutch' was introduced.

Slipper clutch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The downshift from 2nd to 1st is the longest throw in your motorcycle's gearbox. Leaving it to the last moment is asking for trouble.

As I said, I am horrible at explaining when it's not in person because I can't just show you or have an Aid other than words. Writing is not my cup of tea. I'm not arguing that anything you have said here is wrong in any way, I'm just stating my opinion and what I've been taught.

Throttle Off
Clutch In
Blip Throttle (optional)*
Clutch Out
Throttle On"

That is pretty much exactly what I was meaning this little list, but I have never heard of blipping the throttle downshifting in any reading or the MSF course. I learned that if you are at high speeds and the rpm's will stay high, you rev match while clutching at to avoid tank slapping while at lower speeds to just clutch in, off the throttle, change gear, clutch out and your done if there was no rpm matching necessary. But like I said, explaining online is different that how I could explain it in person.

The downshift from 2nd to 1st is the longest throw in your motorcycle's gearbox. Leaving it to the last moment is asking for trouble.

This right here, I agree with is the biggest swing in the gearbox and you will be in trouble if you downshift to 1st in the last second, but I have been taught since I've been driving/riding and told for both cars and motorcycles that after you are out of first, not to go back to it unless you are stopped or at very low speed. There is nowhere you would need to shift down to first for a turn except when you are going slow in a parking lot imo.


I won't dispute that I do have more that I could learn, but everyone no matter how experienced they are, have stuff that they don't know and can still learn.

 

[SAFE-T]

I have been taught since I've been driving/riding and told for both cars and motorcycles that after you are out of first, not to go back to it unless you are stopped or at very low speed. There is nowhere you would need to shift down to first for a turn except when you are going slow in a parking lot.

Original poster must have been explaining it was a 3rd to 2nd gear downshift while I was busy typing my own response.

You are right, there is pretty much no reason to go into 1st gear unless you are going slower than 20km/h.

 

[bjs045]

Downshifting works like this:

Throttle Off
Clutch In
Blip Throttle (optional)*
Clutch Out
Throttle On

on a lighter note...

Safe-T I agree with you 100%, but shouldn't there be an actual "down shift" in this list of steps?

Throttle Off
Clutch In
Blip Throttle (optional)*
|----> Like right here <----| :thumbup:
Clutch Out
Throttle On

IMHO there is no need to blip your throttle in regular street riding. Hell, no reason for it in the twisties either. It's a track skill where you're racing against time and entrance and exit speeds are critical.

Do I practice blipping the throttle on/in the street. Sure do, practice makes perfect. Is it necessary on every time you slow down.....nope.

I think the biggest misunderstood skills in "sportbike riding" is the difference between track racing skills and street riding skills.

Just my .02 cents

 

[Detrich]

By blipping u mean pre-loading the throttle, right BJ? I do it sometimes- well quite often actually- but just cuz I love how it sounds. Hahahahaha. xP

Zoom Zoom

 

[bjs045]

By blipping u mean pre-loading the throttle, right BJ? I do it sometimes- well quite often actually- but just cuz I love how it sounds. Hahahahaha. xP

Zoom Zoom

yup yup...blip = rev matching, pre-load.

So many terms which mean same thing like maintenance throttle and constant throttle. I've even heard that term as neutral throttle....LOL

All 3 of those terms have the same meaning when taking a turn. You're applying throttle just not accelerating nor decelerating.

 

[XTRAWLD]

I had problems yesterday with continually hitting Neutral when downshifting to come to a stop at a light/sign. (I don't blip throttle but I use the engine to help slow me, instead of alot of braking - habit from my other bike). Maybe it's just me getting used to the bike, but I found Neutral more often than I wanted to. Happened when I when I slowing to approach a right turn to another road. Eek. Am I not hitting the shifter hard enough? Perhaps I should just adjust it for more feel?

 

[JSP]

I had problems yesterday with continually hitting Neutral when downshifting to come to a stop at a light/sign. (I don't blip throttle but I use the engine to help slow me, instead of alot of braking - habit from my other bike). Maybe it's just me getting used to the bike, but I found Neutral more often than I wanted to. Happened when I when I slowing to approach a right turn to another road. Eek. Am I not hitting the shifter hard enough? Perhaps I should just adjust it for more feel?

I had problems going from 1st to 2nd constantly getting it in neutral. After a little while the transmission wears in a little better and it gets nice and smooth. A little firmer shift should do it too hopefully. You are going from 2nd, past neutral and into first, so there is that little extra in there